DUSTED!

avatar
(Edited)

bitcoinlostdisintegrate.jpg

So I haven't checked this in a while, but if your post/comment doesn't get paid out enough money, the network decides calculating payout/curation for that low value post isn't worth it, and it gets subsequently rounded to zero.

We call this process dusting.

There used to be (still is? dun know) a service that would stop this from happening by bumping up a low payout comment to a higher level so it wouldn't get dusted. Not sure if that's still around... don't care because it doesn't apply to me.

Or does it?

t1.png

I'm one of the few people out there that still upvotes comments (due to the convergent curve sucking away half the payout value) and I haven't checked in a very long time whether this was happening to me or not. Apparently it is.

I can't remember the exact number, but if the comment is paying out less than a certain amount (somewhere between 1 and 2 cents) the network dusts it and rounds that to zero.

t2.png

Took me a while but I found this outlier payout from @taskmaster4450 on May 11... Looks like the network will still respect a 0.014 payout, so perhaps the dust cutoff is 1 cent? Someone reading this will know and post it below. 100% upvote.

I'm pretty sure that the network determines the cutoff using our relative value to USD (HBD) rather than the raw payout measured in HIVE. This means that if Hive goes x10 a lot less comments would get dusted because their dollar value would be higher. This is interesting because the witness set this price themselves using their nodes via the price feed.

Technically they could set the value to whatever they wanted, but normally it stays very close to the actual price by pinging the centralized exchange servers like Binance to relay that information to the blockchain. We trust the witnesses to be oracles of the network and feed correct information to the chain.


This is one reason why I'll probably never own LINK. LINK is an oracle network and we already have oracles with reputations to defend.

Is dusting unfair?

From a certain perspective, dusting is an attack against poor people. We are taking away their reward and dumping it back into the reward pool to be acquired by someone else. On the other hand, the process of dusting also makes the network more efficient.

Imagine witnesses (every node actually) being forced to calculate thousands of comments with thousands of votes and curation for thousands of plankton, and then when everything was said and done the total sum of all those operations was less than a penny. Not worth. By simply ignoring payouts like that we ignore a lot of hassle and make the network run more smoothly and quickly.

So what happened?

I have no idea why 4 of my comments in a row happened to get dusted. I'm normally very careful about upvoting for at least 2 cents. At the same time, the price of Hive has been going down lately, so over 7 days that 2 cent upvote could have dipped significantly (although probably not by 50%). There's also the possibility that more money than expected was leeched from the reward pool, which would have pushed the payout down even further. If I want to make sure I never get dusted I'll probably have to upvote for at least 3 cents going forward. Although chancing it isn't that big of a deal either. We are talking about pennies, after all.

Still working on my database.

I just took the day off today to continue working on my Hive database.
Feels good.

Below we see the raw-block data for 46426443

 {"previous":"02c4694aa6b951f98d933c6caa233582c9d1401f","timestamp":"2020-08-28T01:43:42","witness":"steempeak","transaction_merkle_root":"895ab91b9f7f153e349c45c639bb999fc90fde41","extensions":[],"witness_signature":"1f60bc0aa07b70672fb41c60fb94dd6ed17543268f4c0bafacb8ed2b88fa7741b7176a44be4c304dc2194209b0e04d54759a4b1f532390286b1c0c431f2906bd8d","transactions":[{"ref_block_num":26937,"ref_block_prefix":3646444922,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:53:36","operations":[["vote",{"voter":"platomaniac","author":"davedickeyyall","permlink":"actifit-davedickeyyall-20200828t010651199z","weight":10000}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["2059349cb71129bd9f7f05a46ae19319b4dfa909dc530eeb23f4f6044ecd3543627fdd1a361e91920fe3701491192eb16d74a93c73acf4ee1f00dfec52d9c7375c"],"transaction_id":"02ef87b421b99cbd97d298c4135a2af785ba9497","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":0},{"ref_block_num":26952,"ref_block_prefix":1588079656,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:45:03","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["ru55-bot"],"id":"sm_find_match","json":"{"match_type": "Ranked", "app": "steemmonsters/0.7.45"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["2046d9d9bd2d57a4ff22e5533ba9ac610d798fa53200510712f857be5ae6e7fae16bfb35c35faa1749421ec0312e630c989dde82197ef89d3c8c0b31ec80ace405"],"transaction_id":"ef216abd060ea80f36657493572d74b42e28ceaa","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":1},{"ref_block_num":26935,"ref_block_prefix":3846505379,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:53:30","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["royero000"],"id":"sm_submit_team","json":"{"trx_id":"3f97fc4a487484291630239921b9bdd910be1761","team_hash":"7f7dfbd330ede4f803f60f29c5abc74a","app":"steemmonsters/0.7.45"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["1f2bc27ae506f14db3e5425142d61a9b84cc27e77aa7edc239d9a2d59f6a11442d78ba500f8e381c999ce7ed8d74ddf766318a9d66ad491242170bd7723a3a3eb6"],"transaction_id":"a18e96b211a94f02b63e745cb3ab1ea6323eb461","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":2},{"ref_block_num":26937,"ref_block_prefix":3646444922,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:53:36","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["ashketchup"],"id":"sm_team_reveal","json":"{"trx_id":"63e2fd540a329038108902291c413b00e0e2365a","summoner":"starter-189-TNldA","monsters":["starter-181-7Q2h6","C3-221-ZTPDC52BIO","starter-183-q1pr4","starter-194-MZQhT"],"secret":"eAW0pz10aM","app":"steemmonsters/0.7.45"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["1f352ad05057f16c45110124d7902aaee9966db5996178561b800b786bd8a7abfc29e26a5ebab205a34fd9d623b9ece2f494467f72d316ac188fac4fc7e5634663"],"transaction_id":"763a8765772ee6891721f4659e16ed169fae6cd3","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":3},{"ref_block_num":26937,"ref_block_prefix":3646444922,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:53:36","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["zhuanzhibufu"],"id":"sm_find_match","json":"{"match_type":"Ranked"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["20057b29da1a7966126b2c990867ea0a626e41547a06798044e1cf4c0948e3f32f175cc7fb43bbb1affeb1021cc6094464675f85b804cc62486c5491241e811a76"],"transaction_id":"73da035ed8d146697af639cb6a996db144780706","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":4},{"ref_block_num":26937,"ref_block_prefix":3646444922,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:53:36","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["neminers-41"],"id":"sm_submit_team","json":"{"trx_id":"82e7f6cb3b87e6dd4674e8265653aa711b461788","team_hash":"e74860912b28f02626d5c724a8d6377b","app":"steemmonsters/0.7.34"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["1f65a326476b818c181e3f8b044f32b809a13cde18fee88305e0dec10ee4598e5214b06ea73e5da9c936afa62670478ec303405574d0d8f169e5412e8e1bdb2381"],"transaction_id":"9de79d4c483622d9a45a40662c60debfbed3227a","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":5},{"ref_block_num":26937,"ref_block_prefix":3646444922,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:53:36","operations":[["vote",{"voter":"dlstudios","author":"luislrt","permlink":"drawing-practice-or-beast-of-the-night","weight":10000}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["1f27f51bb1c6cf034eb460efdc67b72907b680a349d0f41575e82907fbc997ce0d298de69e452270ecd94a0fef6951598717dbed63798e442735658e201bba315e"],"transaction_id":"5a7ae067fefc2d7fbe26d847dbb1cc8eecc8c3d3","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":6},{"ref_block_num":26953,"ref_block_prefix":1032002585,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:44:47","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["craftsman252"],"id":"sm_find_match","json":"{"match_type":"Ranked","app":"steemmonsters/0.7.45"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["1f2d59bc2c917bbd01846a49c0ebc349b605ed082ae788829ab764264e1e7ceaed33be9b581e4458204fea6b20d544279b2afd94edd5e7d16c6106680a20ceaae1"],"transaction_id":"240444322b2f99c340b3569c353eb70f44af0a03","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":7},{"ref_block_num":26936,"ref_block_prefix":2834886947,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:44:09","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["kasztan"],"id":"sm_find_match","json":"{"match_type":"Ranked","app":"gerbot/0.01"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["1f65106486bd82b15ebe28788cb7d0d0858acbdf5a4ce48b5f2b12b64e6ebe3425757491ad56662fb4ccf3db5578ee31afd64bc9cffe67ac694193087c26bd24a5"],"transaction_id":"f34c637a292818694e76611be7338e0afb6ffcbb","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":8},{"ref_block_num":26937,"ref_block_prefix":3646444922,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:53:36","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["tribu"],"id":"sm_find_match","json":"{"match_type":"Ranked","app":"steemmonsters/0.7.34"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["1f77d50ea7a44a1133a93512411139964063fbe2d03214e5872deb49d7f2b907d747c3c1f52cf1688163d64927bc50285987a7a5904d0f8c1c797f73700b7772eb"],"transaction_id":"9406f167e8c9a93604160b066bb9faf1a0dda350","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":9},{"ref_block_num":26952,"ref_block_prefix":1588079656,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:45:03","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["imila"],"id":"sm_find_match","json":"{"match_type": "Ranked", "app": "steemmonsters/0.7.45"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["2024fc05ebd8625a06e84ab11a34a7c6544da2fad9600030c6589f949fcc35e2ef5510f43196909077819e735e910bfbc7313390cb301d6c01b812198cdacb4ecb"],"transaction_id":"82b3846b2e3ce09c5c509da683ea67a79be3b1ac","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":10},{"ref_block_num":26938,"ref_block_prefix":682009668,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:53:39","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["jakiro12"],"id":"sm_team_reveal","json":"{"trx_id":"75a46a8f62eddb40aa80d35a575bfd93bed4fe31","summoner":"C4-224-C2Z1SZ59FK","monsters":["C5-274-PBP3S43GJ4","starter-26-kXyFM","C4-179-KW9Z0CJX4W","C4-194-DLHX5CPFRK","starter-63-toTqs","C4-192-683RLB5G00"],"secret":"RtxZCLg69c","app":"steemmonsters/0.7.45"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["1f386771fcaa7ee9b2362a0c940098378c1e34b1325f104ba33f1b51d7ae99ef6e0b8c4f09a35123d842f431738fa3487fd99688d774b42544e856c5d35fa5a543"],"transaction_id":"9a7fe4d24cf26a9f1bfea31d70bf3227d0e7d3c5","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":11},{"ref_block_num":26954,"ref_block_prefix":4182882726,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:44:10","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["ig-88"],"id":"sm_find_match","json":"{"match_type":"Ranked"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["1f59168070dd59a45013f91ffa1b38de6a7306954284f4f95a231c29cd3a41769e557ca5ba266265b1c304cdb3a27675efe4efe00c5be77aa599de82c7bcda1c54"],"transaction_id":"8dfe65fb60e395ba8bb44f1bd082ce2bdfc02ea8","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":12},{"ref_block_num":26937,"ref_block_prefix":3646444922,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:53:36","operations":[["custom_json",{"required_auths":[],"required_posting_auths":["yaminosoubasi"],"id":"sm_submit_team","json":"{"trx_id":"6915eeae984bcdfd430a881eb4b2201b01a607fd","team_hash":"05b40199e922e857f03b852df100945f","summoner":"starter-156-8z0Vm","monsters":["starter-152-qsVr9","starter-195-ypv94"],"secret":"vXD8RNa60Y","app":"steemmonsters/0.7.45"}"}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["202b3641a785802e50a8ffd91b2e59126e1d767f81d0887de6eab86cce0c7363b15666966439dbb22b24c13b812880764769a7729e7cc5b987fa356d4ac576c2a9"],"transaction_id":"0819b8c624a81a4ef1d82612e1a937529cc40e46","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":13},{"ref_block_num":26938,"ref_block_prefix":682009668,"expiration":"2020-08-28T01:53:39","operations":[["vote",{"voter":"discoveringarni","author":"iamyohann","permlink":"re-pinmapple-qfqy88","weight":500}]],"extensions":[],"signatures":["1f7319084592f5ca0a9e2e258d4e1349a6bab91c3a78056d535fb55619b062e58f54abd01307695d5e07f0f932eb26b1fce2489a6bf475af29da7cdf13bc82b0e8"],"transaction_id":"07d2d82b06535535eea6d662a5af3d0a52fad3e6","block_num":46426443,"transaction_num":14}],"block_id":"02c4694be78194ae9ba136fd40987b8954e72938","signing_key":"STM6aq8Ymd7NRVk2ry7buNHSFYCy5yGMKBXMZAa7hS7rtVL4VarGb","transaction_ids":["02ef87b421b99cbd97d298c4135a2af785ba9497","ef216abd060ea80f36657493572d74b42e28ceaa","a18e96b211a94f02b63e745cb3ab1ea6323eb461","763a8765772ee6891721f4659e16ed169fae6cd3","73da035ed8d146697af639cb6a996db144780706","9de79d4c483622d9a45a40662c60debfbed3227a","5a7ae067fefc2d7fbe26d847dbb1cc8eecc8c3d3","240444322b2f99c340b3569c353eb70f44af0a03","f34c637a292818694e76611be7338e0afb6ffcbb","9406f167e8c9a93604160b066bb9faf1a0dda350","82b3846b2e3ce09c5c509da683ea67a79be3b1ac","9a7fe4d24cf26a9f1bfea31d70bf3227d0e7d3c5","8dfe65fb60e395ba8bb44f1bd082ce2bdfc02ea8","0819b8c624a81a4ef1d82612e1a937529cc40e46","07d2d82b06535535eea6d662a5af3d0a52fad3e6"]}

The irony of posting an entire block inside a single comment should not be lost on you.

Notice anything? Most blocks don't even have posts/comments in them. They are mostly upvotes, transfers, and "SteemMonsters" custom JSON operations. I think it's slightly comical that Splinterlands is still called Steemmonsters in the code on the HIVE blockchain. Should give you some kind of idea about how hard it is to change certain things once you've committed to them.

It's really great to see that Splinterlands is filling up the blockchain because we have the ability to scale far better than most blockchains out there, but we simply don't have the development to back it up. In my next post I'll explain this a bit more. Failing to fail is failure.



0
0
0.000
8 comments
avatar

I have no idea what the cut off is. I do know when I go to upvote something on Peakd, if it is a popular post, my vote is worth more than if I vote on something that isnt popular. If memory serves me, I think it is 20 minimum on that threshold. Of course, if others vote behind me and push it up, them my vote value, associated with that post, incrases.

The last Hark Fork on Steem, the last September, altered everything.

As for comment voting, I do that out of my LEO account and the focus is upon LEO. I am actually giving more LEO than Hive, which I guess is zero since it is likely dusted out.

Posted Using LeoFinance

0
0
0.000
avatar

Of course, if others vote behind me and push it up, them my vote value, associated with that post, incrases.

This is the convergent reward curve hard at work, implemented all the way back on HF-whatever (21?)... the EIP hardfork. It may have taken a while for frontends like PeakD to reflect that change to the end-users.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

Failing to fail is failure... I am now looking forward to your next post and elaborating on this quote. Because I've heard it can be lucrative to updoot comments over posts, especially when old, I always updoot 100% to people that comment on my posts. Which can vary from 5 cents to 10 cents depending on the person o.o

0
0
0.000
avatar

According to @dustsweeper the cutoff is 2 cents. Having said that, the article I am referencing is from June and #hive is continually changing.

https://peakd.com/dustsweeper/@dustsweeper/dustsweeper-s-faq

@dustsweeper will vote your command above $0.026. Even if there is a price drop before payout, this should be sufficient to stay above the $0.02 dust threshold.

Unfortunately, the article does not address the outlier of 0.014 that you referenced above.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Now that I'm looking at it again... that outlier payout is an EXTREME outlier. You can see that the total payout is 0.014 but the Author @taskmaster4450 received 0.012 of that payout. This means I upvoted super early and the vast majority of my curation was sent back to the reward pool.

With this in mind, the cutoff very well could be 2 cents exactly, because that comment was actually paid out more than 2 cents, it's just that a huge chunk of the curation got dumped back into the reward pool because I voted early.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

I am pretty sure it is 2 cents currently, yes, and the 1 cent payouts would be from the dollar price drop somewhere during the upvote and/or payout window. I suppose a snapshot is not taken for everything at once perhaps.

0
0
0.000
avatar

We are taking away their reward...

This conflicts with the mantra that it’s not your reward until it’s in your wallet.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Hm yeah, consensus matters, and consensus says these aren't rewards after all.
I have no problem with dusting, I'm just parroting a viewpoint of others (a false one).
Also, I'm not going to worry about a few pennies when the goal is to bring wealth and abundance to all.

0
0
0.000