RE: Do you think Palnet "holds no value" and disagree with minnowsupport bot?
You are viewing a single comment's thread:
It doesn't matter what the SCT token does, but once voting is coming out of the STEEM pool at these levels it will attract attention and these posts are hitting the trending sections and that will attract more attention - that is the idea of attracting votes at that level. Once in the attention, people are going to scrutinize it. What I have found is that the Korean community so far seems to have not been paying attention to what has been happening on Steem at all which is fine, but those on Steem have been.
The downvotes can be for disagreement of rewards or, disagreements of bidbot usage or disagreement of using a random token to buy large Steem votes or any number of reasons, but it is up to the community to decide where the Steem is directed. The tribes can do as they please with their own tokens, as it should be.
Does the SCT token hold value if there was no STEEM votes available? It seems that this might not be the case considering that they are being swapped out for Steem votes instead of being held as valuable tokens in themselves on their native platform.
What I am glad about is that there is more discussion around these things now as the other bidbots have been reduced to the point activity that has laid hidden can be seen. Thanks for taking the time to write in English too, it is appreciated.
This point you wrote actually is an excellent point of measure for any DAPPs or Tokens. I'm not addressing to SCT specific but to general. Thank you for the valuable comment.
I think in order to be a truly successful dapp or token, it needs to hold value on its own. Steemmonters and their cards is an excellent example.
Yes it is as it stands on its own two feet and provides a use case that has utility without requiring a Steem vote for attraction.
Superb!!
It seems that the fact that sct brought more than 1 million steems to power up and hence supported steem prices is consistently ignored.
But your second point deserves more attention. I believe that SCT is much better than steem (and market prices so far confirms it) and it may do much better on other blockchain, but for now it is using steem blockchain network so not independent.
I don't want to get too involved in this whole conversation, but I just wanted to comment that the converse of the above is also true - that the rest of the Steem community seems to not pay attention to what's going on in the Korean community, and I think that is also a big mistake. The Korean community seems to be one of the largest on the platform in terms of stake, and I suspect that without their support STEEM would be doing far worse than it already is. In fact, from what I understand Steemit, Inc specifically has really dropped the ball in Korea over the past year or so and I think that has contributed heavily to STEEMs huge price decline relative to other cryptocurrencies.
Yes, but as I have found through @jayplayco, most of their interaction other than voting seems to be off Steem and in chat groups, leaving much of the content graveyards to collect votes other than be part of communities. When it comes to the voting of much of that stake, it is "tight-knit" to say the least with one of the largest accounts only voting on itself and alts until very recently after downvote pressure.
While everyone can do as they please with their own stake, once it enters onto a post with Steem on it, for seven days the final allocation is under negotiation. There is so much value in the Korean community that they could be onboarding locally with and increasing their own worth, yet as I have been told, the Korean community is shrinking. From what I understood (google translated), at least some didn't even know there was a hardfork that changed the economics.
Price decline is one thing of course, but I don't think keeping staked users who are not interested in developing even their own community growth is really the way to go for a long-term successful platform.
It depends how you see it, as I personally see also that the international community had been doing the same, as much of the communication had been done on Discord and not on Steem. As I am mentionend here, you may remember that a lot of the talk with me had also happened as DM on discord and not on the blockchain. It is simliar. If you go back in history, the tag KR had been the third active tag on the Steem blochchain for a long time. SCT is the second highest tag in the moment. ZZAN, which is also a Korean Tribe is the 11th tag, so you may see that the activity on the chain itself is for the portion of the KR community still very high, but just not visible (due to the UI of Steemit and language barrier). It is just that much of the direct communication have moved more into chat channels.
The Korean community was never really big, compared to the whole Steem community. The biggest difference in the KR community is only that almost every single user is and was heavily invested into Steem. It comes from the beginning when users introduced Steem to other KR users and the main underlying advise was, if you want to grow on Steem, buy it. As an example, I have started with 700 Steem for 2K USD and proportionally increased that. Not the KR community only, but Korea itself as a country is still making about 25% of the daily worldwide volume of Steem, but it was normally on a level of 50%, especially when the daily volume increased (which means that the price increased) If you look into the data of coinmarketcap you will find the dependency on the KR market for the Steem price is at least at a level of 55-60%, partly 70% when we see an increase in the Steem price.
I think that needs to be corrected and more people outside of Korea should buy and stake Steem.
Yes, that may be true, but it is one thing to know the technical implementation of an hardfork and another thing how the community will react on that. I have been informing the community about the effects of EIP and how the Steem community is moving on, but as normal you can't reach everybody.
I have now long term Steem users from the KR community contacting me directly that they are going to give up on Steem and moving on, or are shortly before that. That may sound not really dramatic, but these users have been investing in 6to 7 figure USD into the Steem economy. I know that a lot of people say that is great, so people can buy in cheap, but as every single coin economy, if you lose the whales the minnows will not be able to fill that place. We will have to find other whales replacing them.
I have personally moved my really little Steem from the exchange (compared to all the other KR users) and powered it up yesterday to show that I believe in the system, but it is only a drop on top of the hot stone. Even if the "honest voting" movement itself is legit, the way how it was and is done, without communicating directly with the people and understanding the consequences is unfortunate. The Korean community may be small from the number, but due to the specific way (due starting steem with investment) how they have approached Steem, the thinking has been formed differently. This kind of investments also had developed the growth of Steem, except that only a few recognized it. It comes due to the fact that there are language barriers (which is the same reason that the international community does not care or understand what happens within the KR community). Yabab knows about the effect the KR community has, as he is running Steemmonsters and know the numbers KR has invested into SM.
I am therefore happy that these kind of communications are happening and hope that we can form the community as we like without loosing all investors or at least having a plan how to find new ones.
Your comments are like my posts :P
there is a lot of talk off chain of course, but there is also a great deal of talk on chain too and when it comes to the factors that affect the community, a lot happens quite transparently.
This is good, but active in what way? SCT and ZZAN are tokens, but how is the demand on that token if there are no Steem votes rewarding it?
I agree. But, if there is so much Steem in the KR comm, why isn't there more being done to use it to grow the KR comm?
Doesn't this prove the inactivity on Steem of the KR community? I would say that if the KR comm knew of the changes prior, they would have adjust similarly to everyone else. When it comes to how the community will react, being part of the discussions of the community would have been a pretty good indicator.
It just takes time. I believe that it isn't "stake at any cost" and abusive stake that doesn't help the platform grow harms more than it helps as price will eventually be an indicator of the community health, not whether a whale or ten buy it. Having investors who undermine the value proposition of Steem is counter-productive to getting to a healthy platform.
As Matt said about the ball being dropped, that may be true or not, I can't say. However, as a platform that is meant to be about ownership and responsibility, it is the responsibility of owners to do as they see fit and if the KR community however staked acts one way, the rest of the community will react accordingly. The beauty of the system and also the challenge is that this can happen without a common language.
The crux of the matter is though, once a post draws Steem from the common pool, it is up for negotiation from the entire community for 7 days. stake doesn't by rights to the reward, just rights to access the pool to place the potential rewards. I believe that at this tie at least, allocating that reward to those who are adding value to growing the platform has more value than giving that reward to people who only have stake. If that stake is growing the platform, they deserve to get rewarded too. THe thing with the EIP is that stake can still get 50% return on their value and still use the other 50% to support those who are supporting the growth of the platform and therefore, the worth of their stake.
For sure. And while I know that this is uncomfortable for many, it is better to have this conversation now and then work toward a solution that improves the real value of Steem, then have it at the next random coin pump. And pump it was. Once the community value is the main focus, the price will raise in a stable fashion and all holders will win. But those invested users now are also entrepreneurs and behaving to harm one's own business is not a smart move for an investor.
I like talking with you :)
ZZAN does not have any voter, and for SCT, the voter is and was only able to distribute about 300 SCT per day.
SCT and ZZAN are both tokens based on nitrous and scotbot, which is kindof similar like a pre-version of SMT. You can find the nitrous under
The tribes are moving forward quite fast in terms of testing the field (which we will see when SMT is live) and also partly matching the functions and UI for their needs. As an example Steemcoinpan developed a Thumbsup function to be able tip the author personally even after the payout timing.
50% of the SCT donation are given to the author and the rest of 50% are partly burned and used from SCT for their developing pool.
The portion Steemcoinpan is depending on the bot is only minimal, as the value is created from the demand and supply. The current token price for one SCT token is about 2 Steem,
I suppose that you know how the Nitrous and Scotbot environment is working, but if not the crash course, Nitrous and Scotbot are somehow simulating functions of an SMT based on the Steem blockchain. If you upvote with staked SCT (or Zzan or any other SE token) you will get SCT upvoted. Steem upvotes are only additional, as it can't be avoided on the current system.
If you look at the current orderbook of SCT at Steemengine, you will see that it is a quite healthy orderbook.
Source
To understand the economics of this kind of tokens, we would need to talk about Dapps and POT (Proof of task) and how token economics and demands work, but I guess that would be too much for a comment. :)
It is, :) Steemhunt(Reviewhunt), Ntopaz, Tripsteem, Tasteem are Korean projects.
Steemcoinpan, Steemzzang, TripleA(Movie Review Site) are also Korean Tribe projects with the main goal to bind as much Steempower as possible and get the Steem on the exchange back into Steempower. (It is coming from an economic view of the Steem Blockchain)
I personally think for a community with under 300 active users it is quite a lot that is going on to get Steem moving forward.
hmm, the discussion has gone one also on the Korean community. I am sure also on the Chinese, German and all other language communities. (Don't know either if that is a fact, but really assuming in this case) If I would request you to join the discussion (and yes I know that you are one of the few that are trying to do it) the language barrier can really be higher than you think. Most of the Korean users are interested what happens outside of the KR community but are depending on information that are brought into the community. And getting out information out of the KR community into the international community is also not easily possible, as the channels are not there. It was easier when more active users had been around, but nowadays (not only the Koreans but the whole active user numbers for Steem) decreased to a minimal level. I am trying to forward as much as possible, but there are limits, as for many, Steem is just a hobby which limits my personal time I can invest.
That is true and I can confirm that.
I am enjoying it also. :)
But the votes are also in Steem and once in Steem, are open to the Steem mechanisms and scrutiny.
This is why most users with large stakes created additional accounts to handle the token voting. But the Steem portion still comes under steem rules.
How after so long and with so much stake there are only 300 users?
Out of curiosity, why not set up a curation project that supports some percentage of the KR community and some percentage of the international? There are already curation projects that range outside of English by hiring curators that curate other languages, why not have KR curators who speak English curate with some stake too? I think if the stake was spread more widely (remembering that the voter will stake take 50% anyway as well) it would go a long way to integrating the STEEM portion at least.
The tribes and SMT, communities etc should be independent of course and can do as they please, but once the Steem inflation pool comes into it, all Steem staked users get involved.
I am on mobile, so will keep it short this time :)
SCT does have privately runned curation projects and also national and international delegated accounts for curators that are curating sct related postings and comments. ZZAN does has centralized curation projects that are curated from 20 choosen users based on time and result.
For Steem, most of the liquid Steem had been bind on Steem Engine as Steemp to run the tribes and a part had been used for the bot (at least for SCT) but I personally think that the tribes will find a new way and purpose for their owned Steem. (It could be delegated Steem to the current curators, etc. that is up to the tribes.)
3000 is a fair amount, but from what I have seen, there are a few alts traveling about too :)
i think that the new way for the tribes will come partly when RCs can be delegated without having voting power to the delegate. Tribes should be able to onboard users who will never need to see Steem but will instead interact for the native currency alone.
I think separation between Steem and other tokens is important and will change a lot of the behaviors of staked Steem users as instead of using it to reward content creators, it can be used to build the ecosystem directly. That is some time off I think though.
Steem has zero "intrinsic value".
Steem only has utility if it can be exchanged (directly or indirectly) for fiat currency.
Don't fool yourself.
Please define "community value".
Any rules (in service of "community value") should be minimal and logically coherent and enforcement should be polite and informative (please give fair warning).
You talk like you want the masses disillusioned with facebook and youtube to swarm onto steemit, but those people are leaving because of privacy concerns and freedom of speech concerns.
Steemit is explicitly transparent (almost no privacy), but at least it's a level playing-field.
Steemit is reasonable (for the most part) on freedom of speech, but I've been flagged (which felt like harassment) and I've seen several other new users flagged for re-posting their own original content from other blogs or forums. This leaves a bad first impression on people, and a bad first impression is often their last.
I thought it would be cool to earn a few (steem) pennies for my thoughts, which I've already been posting for free for a while now.
But after seeing some of my posts getting 20+ upvotes and still showing $0.00, it really motivated me to figure out how this really works.
Luckily, I crossed paths with a couple of nice people who appreciated my contributions (efforts) and even delegated some steem to support/encourage me.
Honestly, that's the only reason I'm still here.
If you want steemit to grow, you need to incentivize these people who act as ambassadors to NEW USERS.
I came to steemit because I thought it was a (democratic) social-platform/dtube/3speak where I could earn a few pennies for my thoughts.
What I realize now is that it's a game run by oligarchs (plutocracy).
But at least it's a (mostly) transparent game.
The oligarchs reward and smite on mere whim and insure the votes of their "lessers" are meaningless.
If new users believe that their only chance to get a steady modest income from steemit is to "perform for the established rep-whales" and or post photos of their extravagant vacations, then CREATIVE people who want to do their own thing will LEAVE, and you will be drowned in sycophants.
This is true, I am sad to say that I am sobering to the reality that Steem was designed poorly for a social application. Here, hierarchy is very clear, the more SP you have the more followers and engagement you will have.
I just don't believe that is going to work. People want equality in social conversations and to be able to speak freely without potentially huge consequences like auto-flagging.
Also, many of these pro-flagging people on Steem are really ignoring how much it offends people. They can tell you how it shouldn't offend you, and rationalize all they want about it, but human nature is not going to change for their ideals. Humans really dislike it.
I agree. If you don't want to hear from someone or look at their post, just MUTE them. There's no reason to trash their payouts and rep simply because you have a difference of OPINION.