SPS Governance Proposal - Alternative to Solution to Minimize Bot Farms
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Disclaimer:
I am running this proposal at the request of @monsterbank who has paid the burn fee.
This proposal is a reworking of DAO proposal #57, solutions to minimize bot farms, which is being undertaken at the suggestion of Matt in the recent townhall. (youtube - ts: 41:33)
At the same time, it is intended to be an alternative to the ongoing draft proposal from @bronko to minimize bot farms, which envisages curtailing the card rental market as a means of achieving the goal.
Since such an intervention could be perceived by the community as too severe and detrimental, this proposal aims to give the SPS stakeholders the opportunity to vote on this issue separately by adopting the existing proposals, but still allowing rented cards to count as part of the collection power.
Also u will notice a range in cp-requirements. this is to give the team more flexibility in executing on this proposal.
Goals of this Proposal:
- limiting the single bcx bots, the low value deck bots and the soulbound only bots to a minimum by cutting their abilities to earn disproportionate rewards to the value they provide to the game economy.
- doing minimal harm to genuine players while achieving goal 1.
- presenting solutions that are most cost efficient and practical for implementation into the game.
Proposal:
If this proposal passes, there will be a requirement for collection power corresponding with certain ranking brackets only in the Wild format. These requirements must be met in order to continue to receive unrestricted reward distributions. This applies to both SPS and Glint rewards, or other forms of rewards that may be made available in the future.
The requirements for each ranking bracket (league) are:
| League | Ranking Pts | CP Requirement |
|---|---|---|
| Bronze | 260-999 | 1,000 - 49,999 |
| Silver | 1000-1899 | 40,000 - 119,999 |
| Gold | 1900-2799 | 96,000 - 249,999 |
| Diamond | 2800-3699 | 200,000 - 399,999 |
| Champion | 3700 - max | 320,000 - 800,000 |
If a player does not meet the requirements in collection power for the specific league it plays in, then the account can still participate in matches and advance in rating as usual, but the corresponding rating which is used to calculate the reward shares will always be frozen at the highest rating for the bracket where the cp-requirements are met.
For example: a player with a ranking of 2799 and a collection power of 50000 (cp requ. for silver) who wins a match shall receive ranking points and advance to diamond league but shall receive rewards of the same amount as he would have a ranking of 1899 (silver league).For each league the Splinterlands team may choose the required collection power within the given range as shown above as they deem it the most beneficial for the player experience and game economy.
The Splinterlands team may also freely adjust the cp requirements within given range at a later time if they deem it necessary due to changes in game mechanics or other situations that could arise.
The Splinterlands team may also apply the cp requirement to sub leagues or brackets (bronze 1, bronze 2, etc.) as long as the cp requirements stay within the range for the league.
The respective collection power of soulbound reward cards shall not count towards these CP requirements unless they have become fully unlocked at some future point.
The respective collection power of Ghost/starter cards shall not count towards the cp-requirements.
All cards that are rented, transferred, or delegated will automatically receive a 48 hour cooldown where their collection power will only count for the receiving account. This will not interfere with rentals as they have a 2 day minimum rental period.
In case this proposal passes the Splinterlands team shall inform the community about their opinion regarding feasibility and time frame of this proposal in the next townhall after the proposal has passed.
In the case that both this alternative proposal and the current proposal by @bronko to minimize bot farms pass, this proposal would override and nullify the previous version.
This is a much better solution to the economic suicide that was proposed earlier.
I'm not completely in agreement with this part. We must encourage more people to use the Rental Market. That will bring more demand sending prices higher. Other points could be good for the game economy and overall I can make a compromise to support this.
The way I understood it, it seems like renting a card (which has a minimum 48 hour rental period) would automatically trigger the cooldown and delegating a card (to boost CP on another account) would trigger a 48 hour cooldown as well. I think it makes sense to close the exploit of card shuffling between accounts.
That makes sense. Then I'm in full support for this Proposal. Thank you very much for the clarification.
Yes, we need to encourage renting high/max lvl cards again. That will benefit card holders the most. Rental prices were at a good level just a few weeks ago and we need to go back to that.
I can as long as the penalty for having say a under leveled card you play in a deck of otherwise mostly leveled cards doesn't penalize your rewards and the pools go back to being the same between modern and wild as wild will be much more costly to get to higher levels for most ppl who don't have cards already and having lower rewards will keep ppl out of wild and if its not easy like it is now then the rewards should reflect it and the same req should be for modern for CP to.
Thank you. This solves my issues with the other proposal. I'll support this
Again, this still affects actual players with smaller alt account/s. First I progressed account to play ok in silver via CP (bought/delegated/rented), then that was taken away along with my rating rewards as the account was card based and not SPS heavy, now you want to re-introduce CP on top of the continuing SPS reward system. Sorry, but it's way too much. I tried SPS rental this week on my main account, and it wasn't too bad. Was considering applying that to the alt account next season, but a change like this means there is no point.
Please find a solution that actually affects 'bot farms', without hurting smaller players with smaller budgets.
Out of curiosity, what league are you in and what is your collection power?
CP is around 41k on an alt and I use to sit in silver till they removed the ability to not progress. Now I am around low Diamond 1 when season ends. Main is about 250k CP and I get to Champ 3 just before season ends.
Gonna make sure i have enough CP on all my accounts now gotta go pick up some cheap CP for a couple of my few bots or move some of my main accounts 2 million CP jsut so i can keep my couple of bots playing this is not the solution jsut makes another annoyance for most players as I beleive most players bot in wild as well at least one or two accounts especially when they cant play
It s going to be a pain in the ass for people who have the CP on a main account like me with smaller accounts like say 40-100K cp and my main with 2 million cp im going to have to just put cards on accounts so they can play in the higher league even though i want them on my main. this would have changed my whole approach a few weeks ago when i was buying cards i would have not bought a couple grand to get a ab account and a few alts but instead just put it on land or left it with my main and put the money in a protocol outside spl for more stable cash flow to use to fund my gaming now im trapped in a bunch of cards i cant sell or rent for anything if this goes through unless i upgrade all my AB cards to a ridiculous level but as long as its just CP i can handle that but implementing card level penalties will basically make my deck ab deck useless except in brawls and im assuming many others will be in that situation and you cant just sell these cards like you used to as the market dried up as well as prices cut in half already since i bought them mostly. Changing things to much to often makes it impossible for players to plan and make sound decisions.
it feels like when all the games came out at once and there was to much going on for anyone to do it all and everything was confusing and no one could decide what to do bc there were to many moving parts all the time and things were changing after large investments were made then the rules change after making it not as favorable.
Exactly i have a couple of bots with actual cards and have invested plenty six fifgures in to the game this impacts me lol im going to have to put a high CP card on one of each of my accounts now what a pain it will not do anything to hurt big bots they can prob just shrink a bit and up the CP and they have old cards
Yes please this will drive players away keep it simple and deff dont use the card quality thing new players will be greatly impacted by this as they could be very skilled have sps but maybe not have all maxed cards and get little rewards bc of that. So basically sps isnt the driver anymore and demand will go way down if people are limited by there cards they wont buy sps bc it doesnt increase rewareds.
This is correct? not you mean ranking of 1899
I will fix it, I was mainly correcting grammar for the author but I think that's just a mixup.
How the SPS multiplier work on this case?
let said he have 13x at rating 1899 and after move into Gold
Reward calculation cap at 1899 with 13x?
That's the idea... you could go all the way to champ, but you'd be stuck earning 1899 at whatever X multiplier you had unless you got more cards to push you into a higher bracket.
Small question regarding the calculation of "X multiplier"
Would that be calculated at the rating it 'earns' at (in this case 1899) or at its actual rating?
Ie. an account with 50K of CP that has a rating of 3700. If that account had 65K of SPS would the multiplier be 12 (multiplier at 1900 rating) or 6 (multiplier at 3700)
Only really important to distinguish what you are looking to discourage- renting cards or renting SPS.
Good thing cards are cheap for many ppeople go get those cheap older cards with high cp
The solution is one and only: ban bots, everything else is just crap
100%
Sorry, but this proposal is not effective and will hardly work because the pure cp rent is too cheap. For example, to meet the maximum Champion 1 requirement of 800,000 CP, one would currently need to rent for 80 DEC CP. This won’t deter anyone. The extractors who currently extract completely without ownership already have cards rented, and now they’ll just have to pay 2 DEC more for extra CP, which won’t stop them from continuing. Additionally, suddenly accounts with a completely normal deck and no harmful behavior will have to rent CP unnecessarily. This doesn’t make sense; the proposal misses the mark. Even after this suggestion, thousands of accounts without ownership will still be able to mine SPS fully automatically. So, it’s not an alternative proposal but rather another one that uses similar words and numbers but primarily aims at increasing rent, without effectively addressing the issue of pests. Only botfarms/extractors naturally benefits because they can continue multiplying accounts without financial or time limitations.
However, I must say that even though the proposal is an improvement over the current situation, it is not efficient!
And the cooldown rule does not prevent exploits. Besides delegating, there is also transferring, and if the timer is only set during delegation, there is still a timeframe where CP can be used without playing the cards, while the cooldown is already running. Therefore, I request that you adopt my cooldown rule. If the proposal is accepted, it should at least prevent obvious exploits.
My prediction if your proposal passes is that it´s just game over then. How could it not be? Renters will stop renting and not buy cards, they will just play brawls with their souldbounds and that´s it. Then owning more cards that you need for your own deck won´t make any sense. We depend on people having way more than they need for their own deck and them being able to rent out the cards for a decent price. You achieve that by making renting high/max level cards a good deal and if the rental market is pumping, then it starts to make sense to own cards again. And that you achieve by making it more beneficial to rent high/max cards compared to 1bcx.That is the way to deal with the massive amounts of CL cards that were printed.It´s not as simple as just rewarding owning cards,by making renting a bad option. What you will achieve is that owning cards will be very bad in the end.
first of all, you can keep your doomsday story to yourself. secondly, your view is pretty limited. if extrakoren/botfarms rent, where does the money come from? exactly from our pool so they take money from our pool and give us a part of it back via the rent. in the end it remains a redistribution with a net loss for the ecosystem. and the claim that people would no longer buy and rent is just so absurd. but hey, the extrakoren are happy about this proposal here. that's certainly a sign of the good effect........
that's just what we had back then, cp requirement with rent. how effective was it against bot farms and extractors 😂
When I look at your deck it tells me that you´re not going to invest in the ecosystem anymore,just want to extract only yourself from now on. You have a maxed cl deck, no extras to rent out,not renting,your rebellion collection is worth about 5 bucks,so you´re done spending aren´t you? I on the other hand am active on the markets every day. I buy, I sell, I own, I rent and I rent out.I also didn´t say anything about this proposal and that we should go back to cp requirement and that it was effective,but I´m all for it if that means your proposal won´t come to fruition.
It is no secret that I was on the verge of quitting the game. when the CP proposal was accepted at that time, I immediately made more purchases, including a Wild deck with Rebellion cards, and so on. However, when the proposal was not implemented, and the new ranking system went in the opposite direction by removing the level penalty, it felt like a death blow to the cards and consequently to the game. I was in the process of selling everything until a few days ago. Then, during the last town hall, Matt responded to someone else’s question, saying that he would implement the proposal if it were resubmitted with adjustments to the new system. Initially, I thought, “Whatever, I’m done with Splinterlands.” But when a few people asked me if I would submit it again, I decided to do so out of a sense of obligation to the remaining players. The more I delved back into the matter, the more hope I regained, and I stopped the sale. Personally, this is now the point that would keep me here because I believe it is essential to save the Wild mode so that the cards don’t die once they are removed from Modern!
and extracting is also very far-fetched, if you look at my account, since the new ranking introduction i don't play in modern anymore, instead i tested everything possible in wild, bronze level deck, only soulbound, my deck, my deck +rent. because i wanted to be absolutely sure that my analysis is correct. so the truth is that since the new ranking i pay more for testing than i earn. that's the opposite of extracting!
so next time please look better ;)
Your point of removing the level penalty being bad is absolutely correct,that´s why the current system doesn´t work.If they bring that back, bots will rent gold league/max cards again and we wouldn´t have so many gold league/max copies for sale now, because people could still rent them out for a reasonable price.That should have been the proposal.
How about, instead of penalizing players for not having the 'proper' level of card- we institute a multiplier based on the level/rarity of the cards fielded?
The level 'penalty' was bad, for many, many reasons- first and foremost: it wasn't based off of 'fielded'. It was based on 'highest level of owned/rented'. So, people would own/rent cards to avoid the penalty while fielding Starter Summoners and L1 teams.
Ie. accounts would rent L5 Chaos Agents then field them as L1 because that same account didn't rent/own ANY summoners.
OTOH if there was a policy where all (non-SB) 'Silver' leveled cards got you a 4x (25x) multiplier to your earnings.... well I think you would see a MASSIVE uptick in the quality of cards fielded.
how about the SPS req doesnt that make people spend enough money over large bot farms. This wont impact me much except being very annoying bc i have to re arrange my main deck to my alt accounts just to get the right CP so i can keep my level and earnings where they are.
no i had already made the proposal last year, because the problem already existed at that time, the abolition of the level penalty then brought it to light for everyone. the level penalty only limited it to one degree so that most people don't see it at first glance if they don't deal with it. but even then the problem was already there. or are you telling me 1bcx accounts in silver 1 with gold rating were no problem? the abolition of the level penalty only closed the last brake
I didn't even look at @bronko's collection and I came to about the same conclusion, simply based on "cui bono" Who benefits from this proposal? Whales. Nouveau riche whales, to be exact. I would guess his collection is
Nouveau riche? Mostly, if not all, CL cards.
Not many Glad/SB Reward cards? If he had them, he'd be playing in Modern.
As it is, he crafted a very pro-bot proposal that purports to minimize bots while very carefully targeting new players.
"If you don't own at least 400K CP in cards that you don't rent out/put on land/delegate to other accounts- you need to be punished."
In other words: "You kids need to get off my lawn!"
when i made this proposal back then i still had all gladiators at high level, when i made the proposal back then i was even modern champion. just look at my modern rank. so please don't be such amateurs or assholes and please look at my history properly, what i had sold and burned the last time for example. before you spread such shameful lies.
Don't hold back lads this has been a very entertaining read. Just ease off on the down votes it not in the spirit of things.
Yes it wont impact me much either but its fucking annoying i have 2 million plus cp and dont want to move CP jsut to move it to a alt account bot so i can get more rewardss i want them in my main account
I have to say- I agree with @bronko, completely.
"accounts with a completely normal deck and no harmful behavior will have to rent CP unnecessarily. This doesn’t make sense"
Setting up another, completely arbitrary, hoop for accounts to jump through- in order to play or earn, doesn't make sense.
Especially in a format called "Wild"
That said- I fully support any proposal to institute Barriers to Entry for new players. The more complicated, involved, arbitrary, and esoteric the barrier is, the better.
U do know that Bronko also has a proposal up that requires u to have CP, but u can't rent it, u will have to buy cards to earn something, here u can still rent, unless his gets voted down we can get that.
Absolutely. I know all about @bronko's other proposal. It's, as you say, basically the same; there's just a change to one word in his statement:
"accounts with a completely normal deck and no harmful behavior will have to
rentown CP unnecessarily. This doesn’t make sense"Everything I said applies, just as much, to the original proposal as it does to this one- restrictions in a format called "Wild", don't make sense.
OTOH: any pro-bot/anti-player proposals, such as these, will always receive my hearty approval and endorsement.
there are also other differences in my proposal.
You are right.
I had to double-check this one- there IS a requirement for Bronze! Which just seems dumb but who am I to say?
There were a few other differences between the proposals too
and a few more little differences.
Overall your original proposal was simpler, easier to program, easier implement and made more sense while also being much more punishing toward new players.
Thats even creazier would destroy the rental mkt
Yes like mine i own my cards and now i need to re distribute some of my main to my alts for no reason other than to get cp
Does anyone know if Yabapmatt supports this proposal ?
I haven't been paying full attention to this topic lately, but my vote would be very dependent on what Yaba thinks about this.
Thanks for toning down a bit the hysterias of Mr Bronko. This looks more acceptable and more rounded.
I think the proposal system really shines when feedback from a proposal is gathered and a new better proposal comes out. Think about how many times new bills get rejected and do the rounds before approval. This is a great example of addressing many concerns of the previous.
I hope for more of these improved proposals going forward.
answering some comments:
@tjdemigod
"Again, this still affects actual players with smaller alt account/s..."
i think this will even out.
Yes, it will hurt players with small collection cos they might have higher costs for renting cards, but if this proposal succeeds u will also have higher income in sps to cover the increased rental costs.
that is because if we keep the mass bot farms with low value decks out of the higher leagues, then the sps that the bots earn less will be reallocated to human players.
@axrho
"Would that be calculated at the rating it 'earns' at (in this case 1899) or at its actual rating?
Ie. an account with 50K of CP that has a rating of 3700. If that account had 65K of SPS would the multiplier be 12 (multiplier at 1900 rating) or 6 (multiplier at 3700)"
as it is now in this case the multiplier for the rating of 1899 (12x) would be applied.
im not sure what version would be more in favor for the comunity (apply cp cap rating or actual leaderboard rating for calculating rewards).
we could add something like "splinterlands corp may choose whether rewards should be calculated based on cp capped rating or actual player rating points" to point 1. in this proposal if there is significant demand for it.
@bronko
"Sorry, but this proposal is not effective and will hardly work because the pure cp rent is too cheap..."
ur proposal is undoubtedly more effective in fighting bots, but it comes with the cost of severe restrictions for players and the whole game economy. the comunity shall decide if wants to burden these costs.
yes, cp rent is actually too cheap, but cost will rise with increasing demand.
"And the cooldown rule does not prevent exploits. Besides delegating, there is also transferring, ..."
yes, thats right. we will change that. thx.
@toxicdiamond
"Your point of removing the level penalty being bad is absolutely correct,that´s why the current system doesn´t work.If they bring that back, bots will rent gold league/max cards again and we wouldn´t have so many gold league/max copies for sale now, because people could still rent them out for a reasonable price.That should have been the proposal."
bringing back the old system is also an option, but matt decided to introduce the open leagues. i suggest first to try fixing it and to give it 1-2 seasons. if it doesnt work well, then we can make another proposal to go back to the old system.
@axrho
"How about, instead of penalizing players for not having the 'proper' level of card- we institute a multiplier based on the level/rarity of the cards fielded?..."
clayboyn had an very interesting idea in that direction, and we considered to bring it in this proposal, but then decided to skip it for a solution that can be implemented within weeks rather then in months.
@tsnaks
"Does anyone know if Yabapmatt supports this proposal ?"
idk, but matt suggested in last townhall to make a new proposal and he sees no reason not to implement it if it passes.
in general:
what do u think about the numbers that are given in the range for each specific league? to low? to high?
some feedback is very much appreciated.
pls be so kind and discuss bronkos proposal in bronkos proposals threat and stay on topic here. many thx :)
Its the fact that CP was replaced with SPS as it was deemed 'a terrible idea in the first place'. Now you want to bring it back in. If this terrible proposal goes through it would be nice if you limit it to the SPS rewards. Glint rewards don't give SPS like the old chests did so why cut ones chance to grow their smaller account with soulbound cards?
TLDR: As you said, again smaller accounts get shafted.
If it passes, make for SPS only, not glint rewards.
there are saleaeble items in the glint shop. this could be exploited by bots and is my main concern.
Man this is gonna kill some smaller players say good bye to players that cant afford to meet those requirements.
On the first point: "the multiplier for the rating of 1899 (12x) would be applied." (the 'payout' rating vs. actual rating)
That's great- will save me quite a bit in SPS rentals!
On the second point: "@clayboyn had an very interesting idea" I would hope that it would be Proportional, Transparent and Equivalent in regards to applying a level multiplier bonus- although, given the history of such things in SPL, I don't have high hopes.
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I was just thinking that my rewards haven't been nerfed in a few weeks... I spend several years earning SPS and the it turns out it's only enough to stake for about 1/5th the earnings before that. Then spend a year building some good rewards cards, and someone wants to implement CP requirements again with none of those earning counting towards the requirement. It just gets harder and harder to come up with a reason to keep playing.
I feel this in my soul
I spent a ton on SPS... womp...
RW Cards for CP Rent... womp womp...
Cards for Rental in GENERAL... Womp Womp...
Total Rental Market $... Under $1,000... WOMP WOMP...
It's like... why bother buying cards to rent? We seem to be the ones punished with lower returns, lower values and almost no point in doing it :(
So now we need to have a lot of SPS and make sure all the cards we use in the battles are maxed out or we get penalized?
Thank you for participating in SPS DAO Governance @clayboyn!
You can place or monitor SPS Stake Weighted votes for and against this proposal at the link below:
Link to this Pre-Proposal
Updated At: 2024-05-05 19:35 UTC
Solve the Bot Farm issue with 1 step:
Minimum DEC for Rental = 1 or 5 or 10... or whatever...
Just make it more expensive to RENT the cards and the bot problem solves itself.
Oh there's definitely a 1 step solution... that ain't it. That just kicks the issue down the road because as soon it's profitable again they'd turn them back on.
Thats a better idea than a min cp req
WHY NOT SPLINTERLANDS COMPANY JUST PARTNER TO BOT CREATORS LIKE XBOT AND ARCHMAGE SO THAT ANY ONE WHO LIKES TO BOT THEIR ACCOUNT SHALL OWN A TOKEN, PROVIDED THAT THIS TOKENS HAVE MAX SUPPLY. IN THIS CASE SPLINTERLANDS CAN HAVE PERCENTAGE OF THE BOTS COMMISSION AND MAYBE PROPOSED TO BURN IT. FOR EXAMPLE AT THE END OF THE DAY XBOT/ARCHMAGE MANAGED TO EARN 1,000 SPS AS THEIR COMMISSION FROM ALL BOT USERS THEN SPLINTERLANDS CAN HAVE 10% (EXAMPLE) AND BURN IT. (NOW WE HAVE BURNING MECHANISM FOR SPS)
IN THIS CASE WE CAN ELIMINATE THOSE BOT CREATORS WHO CAN RUN THOUSANDS OF ACCOUNTS WHO ARE JUST EXTRACTING FROM THE GAME AND KILLING IT.
I HOPE THIS PROPOSAL WILL BE NOTICED AND IMPROVED.
THANKS
Thats a good idea and maybe give it to the DAO treasury to split it.
Hi there, I am a small fish who does not have a CP of 154635. I do not have time to join daily in the game. And yes I am running a Bot "Shame on me!" But I participate in tournaments and brawls. Just with a 50% win rate. But I like the game and the collection gathering. After I spent over 1k USD from 2021 till now I have the fear that all new implementations will get worse for small fishes like me.
So here are some points from my side we should also consider.
,Sorry for my bad English. But these points are also important for small fishes like me.
its not good for people who put a lot of money in the game either as that capital was deployed thinking that things were one way then they keep changing making it worse and different decisions would have been made like holding off on some spending until things got more solid etc now im down a lot of money due to the card crash which likely has to do with banning all bots not jsut huge bot farms as many of the bots are people who invested alot running alt accounts not bot farms and now they cant use those bots in modern ok and then wild gets nerfed for rewards that's fine you can adapt a bit now make it even worse for people who like to bot and then play in brawls by making them spend even more money if they want to maintain the rewards for all the alt accounts. I think i have enough CP for mine with 2 million plus but many wont have that. None of the whales are really concerned they can just bot and move cards around like me but its jsut annoying another waste of time i just spent weeks setting up these decks for the last changes.
if rewards are nerfed in wild sps req should be less since you earn less than in modern right now per battle bc of the bonuses and actually more in modern. Need to even that out a bit to and not have the same sps req for mdoern as wild if the rules are diff and giving less rewards overall.
i miss the older days when things didnt change every week and you could plan a bit.
What if we just re-implemented the minimum card level limits in Wild format? It seems to me that this would achieve the same goal - i.e. limiting the rewards for accounts using low level cards in high leagues - but would just require turning on a restriction that is already implemented rather than building out something new.
It makes sense to me. @monsterbank would this address your concerns?
If both proposals were to fail is this something you'd consider just implementing to resolve the issue, since it's technically a company decision either way, or would we need to run another proposal?
how should this work? suppose i have a bronze/1bcx account, because of all the botfarms, i play in diamand until champion3, i can't keep my account down anymore. then i don't get any rewards anymore? or how much did the level penalty go? but even assuming he would get 20% of the rewards. then this bronze player who is in diamand through no fault of his own would still need the sps requirements of diamand to get the 20% of diamand.
because with the bronze sps requirements he would only get 0.3% in diamand, and with the level penalty he would only get 20% of the 0.2%, so nothing!.....
It can work any way we want really. I would just prefer that the rewards be based on the cards used in the battle - not just cards sitting in your collection. So the math can be worked out to be the same - if a player is in Diamond but uses level 1 cards in the battle, their rewards can be Bronze league level, just like if they had very low CP as in this proposal.
So I'm suggesting that we keep the math and reward levels similar to this proposal, but base it on the cards used in the actual battle rather than CP so player's can't just get one GFL sitting in their collection and collect the high rewards.
That's even a bigger penalization for small accounts, you need to spend way more to get all leveled cards for league, and if you climb, spend more to level all cards again, rather than just rent CP...and again just ban the bots for good and no more problems or make a 'bots only' mode with small pool
id like to share my perspective as a botfarm operator. currently i am running 1350 bots on a 4 day cycle and id like to see the system change in a way that it is not profitable anymore to let the botfarm run like this.
i dont think that would be the case when we go to the card level penalty system again if we dont exclude the soulbound cards.
if we do it like that then id just run with the bots with soulbound only cards. they have already silver+ lvl. i would rent for 1-3 dec a few extra cards to get my accounts in the ranking range were i want them to be. with that i can already play in gold without penalties. ofc i would loose against human players that have more sophisticated decks but that is no problem because my vague guess is that there are 50k other bots that do the same and if there only around 5k players then the bots will push each other higher in rankings.
i will spread all sps across all my bots (with zero usd decks), because (sadly) it is way more profitable to do so then to invest in proper decks and stake it all on a few champion accounts.
on the other hand with cp requirement implemented and sb not counting id have to rent the cp to get rewards and would compete with all other bots on the rental marked while being stuck with bronce - silver ranking rewards.
not 100% sure, but i think it would make botting unprofitable. for sure it would keep big botfarms away from gold-diamond.
having a few bots with good decks will be still viable, but the big botfarms competing for rewards in the higher leagues will be gone.
thats just my opinion, maybe i dont see it correct.
feel free to enlighten me.
i strongly advise to support this proposal and to implement it into the game soon, thanks!
This is a good point, thank you!
Are you suggesting that if you have say a deck with say 4 leveled cards and you decide to use a one bcx card as one of the cards in the deck that you would get a penalty for doing that? Also if the rules change to remove the bots are the rewards going to be evened out again bc if it is going to be harder in wild again then the rewards should reflect that and not be given 50% more to modern anymore in my opinion if changes are put in to make it much harder in wild.
By remove bots i mean make it hard for large large bot farms not people like me who have a few alt bots and own cards.
i see it as bronko. it would only work, if we go to the old system in wild with locked leagues and reward penalties for low level cards.
back then when we had the old system we saw tens of thousends bots in bronce to silver leagues with well equipped decks that were giving new players a hard time by "guarding" the way to the higher leagues.
i would rather prefer the cp requirements then to go to the old system.
if this proposal passes we wont have the issues we had with the old system, but it will limit the ability for botfarms to drain sps by a lot. hopefully it will also kick the big botfarms with 1 bcx or soulbound only decks out of business because the higher renting costs will drive them into deficit.
While I agree that we should focus on improving rewards for owners of larger collections, I think that it should all come down to rating, which is a simple and intuitive system. Larger collections and higher-level cards should convert to a higher win rate, which should convert to a higher rating, which should convert to more rewards.
I think that it would be beneficial for everyone if the reward system was set up so that it wouldn't make sense economically for botters to run thousands of accounts, but rather to collect assets in one account and bot on that one, in an attempt to get as high rating and as many rewards as possible.
This would motivate everyone, including large botters, to buy many cards and combine them to higher levels. For this to happen, we would need to shift the distribution reward to the tail of people with the highest rating, which is fair in my opinion, as these people have made significant investments into owning the game assets, including SPS.
I would love to get more opinions on this.
I like that idea better bc its basicallly what i am doing already except for with a few accounts but those can jsut play at lower levels as i own all the cards or ill just consolidate a couple and have a few less bots. I only have a few anyway.
At the beginning of time when splinterlands was vast and empty, you allowed bots to be used so that you could gain traction by generating enough battles. Fast forwarding to today where you have enough players, you forget to give thanks to those who have contributed many many spellbooks and instead come out with proposals to kill off these bots.. Is this even acceptable?
So basically we turn, AGAIN into PAY TO WIN game. That "solution" that you propose is the reason i left on first place, right before lands. Why? Because i could reach diamond 1 with my deck but after that shitty thing they did with capped leages, i couldnt go further than bronze.....so yeah if you want to kill the game thats an awesome idea.....i do get the annoying bots are not good, but capping the leages again not sure is the right idea.
This i dont think solves much you can just put a high cp card that most of the bot farms prob own plenty of and then use cheap cards still.
These req should be in modern as well and the rewards should be evened back out so that wild and modern are the same again since the extra restrictions are added making it harder to advance then advancing should be rewarded with at least the same pool and no bonuses to modern and nerfs to wild which would make leveling up cards in wild a more attractive thing to do. If the rewards are not changed but all of these extra restrictions that cost more money for players are put in place it may cause a lot of match liquidity problems as most of the battles in wild are bots i believe. With the large bot farms assuming it works gone then wont we have a similar issue as in modern with no match's. I get curbing the large bot farms that do not invest at all but the CP req seem a bit extreme and the rewards based on cards played suggested below seem even more extreme and will punish everyone as many do not have maxed wild decks or even fully leveled wild decks and they will all of the sudden be penalized if they can make it to a level higher even if they meet the cp req for the league if they decide to use say a level one card in a deck of 5 maxed cards or something. I think the CP req is enough to curb the big bots or get them to rent a lot of CP bolstering the rental markets which are pretty bad right now as there are no bots really renting cards which is where i think alot of demand for rentals actually came from as there are way more bots than players in the game if the bots are either made to rent CP buy CP or shut down then that solves the problem without messing with peoples rewards based on the quality of say a couple cards in the deck.