RE: XBOT's stance on Battle helper (Proposal 8470)
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There is a reason why chess engines are not allowed in competitions. Competition is not about cheating. What would be the point if everyone could become chess grandmaster by using Stockfish or other chess engine? Yes, they are people who still try to use them either online (on chess.com, lichess.org etc) or in official competition, but that doesn't mean they should be allowed.
Splinterlands needs human only areas because otherwise it's not really a game. If you remove skill and time/engagement aspect and keep pretending it's still a game, maybe we should remove assets too to make it easier for new players. And then we can remove gameplay mechanics because it's not really needed. It will be just RNG simulator and one player gets 1 and the other gets 0. But some people will argue it is still the game.
And no, battle helpers are not leveling the playing field, they are destroying it. The same way chess engines would destroy it in official chess competition.
I understand that you, as part of xbot team, want your product to earn money. But if your product is destroying some aspect of Splinterlands, it's not a good thing.
Thanks for the comment.
I don't think Splinterlands is a very competitive game. It's an auto-battle after all.
There definitely should be a place for competition, which is tournaments. But we shouldn't be pretending that the average ranked or brawl player is a "competitive" player.
I think most players just want to field half decent teams and move on with their lives. Battle helper lets you do that.
It's mostly there for casual players so they can play the game at a decent level without investing too much time into strategy.
I would support a battle helper ban from tournaments - that's the reason I added the [NH] tag so that it can be disallowed if the tournament sponsor wants to have a competitive playing field.
this degrading attitude actually already shows everything....
Degrading? It's the truth. This game is an auto-battler. Once cards are in place there is a determined outcome based off of RNG. Can it still have a competitive element? Yes of course but its more of a fun competitive. We can make Candy Land competitive but still a numbers game so skill is out of the equation. Splinterlands has a bit of skill at the highest level but if 2 players play same cards there is still a chance that only one person wins due to RNG. That is the opposite of competitiveness and skill. I love this game and Aggy and Matts vision, and why I'm still here. I'm also a College Esports Coach who Coaches players playing League of Legends and other various genre of top competitive games. Lots of skill involved but even all of them have some form of a meta helper that is allowed even in tournament play. Some of our players use these at times as a quick update on the meta if they have been away from the game for a couple weeks or more. We also have a training program for new recruits that uses a form of a meta helper companion to learn the game through 100s of hours of gameplay while using the tool provided until they are knowledgeable and skilled enough to start competing for a spot on the team.
When you have a common meta even in an auto battler, players at a high level know the common meta and are constantly countering and introducing new metas, then these "battle helpers" have data for a new common meta and it is constantly evolving by the minute. It does indeed take competitiveness to a whole new level. It makes it a bit harder for the casual player if they don't use a companion unless they put in a lot of hours and if you want a successful game that appeals to a broader audience you can't expect everyone to put in 100s and 1000s of hours. You have to give them a bit of a foundation to start with to give them a fighting chance. With these tools maybe eventually they no longer require those tools.
Speaking from a high competitive level in this genre and similar games I really hope people broaden their lens a bit and educate themselves. Refer back to competitive games with how "Metas" are formed and constantly countered by good players. Any real competitor understands this and would not have concern for an average player using a battle helper. This does not hurt the true competitive player at a high level. It does hurt a casual for fun player who doesn't wish to spend the time required to beat the meta. We ban "Meta Helpers" and I believe we stay a little niche game in the web 3 space. Again it all boils down to education on the subject and understanding what type of game this is and stop comparing it to chess and mtg.
I'm against automation but I'm not against a tool providing meta information. And that's what this is at its core is a meta provider. If it becomes not beatable by the best players in the game then yes it would need to be addressed but if we have a enough cards and gameplay mechanics that should never be the case. A high level player that studies the game will always be able to counter what is predictable.
Good Fortune to all those traversing the "lands" of Praetoria in the near future.
Matr1x
your comparison is wrong, splinterlands is about the tactics of which card is placed where, so the tool takes over the entire game. not like leage of legends where a tool tells you the meta but you still have to play the game yourself....
and yes it is degrading, if it is as easy as it is presented why does he need a battle helper to keep up?
so is chess not competitive either because you just place the piece correctly and then miraculously the opponent's piece is defeated and flies off the chessboard?
Sorry your description of the tactics explains nothing to dispute the fact that this is an auto battler so skill plays a way smaller part than it does in a game like chess or mtg. Yes placement can be critical which leads back to the battle helper only gives you best placement of said cards under said ruleset based off your deck and past game history. Team Fight Tactics(Another game I coach) have all sorts of helpers that give you basic placement for your lineup based off of the data of played battles. Now, it can't take into account a player that constantly changes their board to counter other boards during gameplay which is where a bit more skill is involved because that would be cheating. But it lays the foundation for someone who doesn't study the meta to have info to understand the how and whys.
And yes League requires way more skill but it still spoon feeds you meta data for every little facet of the game. It's up to you and your time and skill to determine how good you want or can be.
So if placement is the problem that the helper proves unfair would it then be fine if it just gave you the top cards to play for that ruleset? Because we just saw splinterlands showcase Splintercoach on the townhall which is another form of a "battle helper". You can break down win percentages by focus/ruleset with specific cards. That is critical data that if used correctly could be just as if not more powerful than the current popular battle helper.
I'll touch back on the competitive nature of games in this genre. It is all about up to date information and how to counter said data. It is constantly evolving and requires much skill and intelligence to keep up with and conquer. This is what the causual gamer fails to understand about this at a very high level. A casual gamer has the same info and can have some success but will hit a skill wall. If we have enough gamers playing our ranked modes the skill will rise to the top regardless of battle helpers. I've stated before, the only way the battle helper would be a complete no for me is if it were to counter a submitted lineup by the other player. That would be an exit for me but to my knowledge that is not possible.
I really hope that we find some kind of common ground and balance with the companion helpers. But just to come out and say yup their bad because chess or mtg is very sad. This is an online auto battler(RNG) If you want to have organic one on ones head back to friday night Magic. Or look forward to when we have more in person events in splinterlands. Let's not put up walls that can't be taken down until its too late. Instead look to the recipes of the most successful online tcg/autobattler games out there. Again I will point you towards Riot Games. Will we ever be that big? No probably not but even if we can be a 100th of what they are everyone will be extremely happy in this space.