Rental Users Lists

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(Edited)

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Hello fellow TCG enthusiasts!

This post is going to be a bit controversial. We have a very clear issue right now with rental costs always spiking at end of season. This is an issue not in fairness or significant failure of game mechanics. This is an ethical issue. Due to the obvious flux in demand of new players trying to secure those paltry EoS Rewards, rental prices are absurd near the end of each season. This incentivizes cancelations because who doesn't want to make more money.

I want to bring forth a potential solution and compile a list of owners to rent from and to avoid while we wait for a better system.
Skip to the bottom for the list
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The system itself, as it stands right now, is technically fair in that it doesn't force a renter or owner to do anything they don't specifically agree to. That said, there is little to no risk having cards go unrented during end of season as there are no rental pressures throughout the season. As such, the market very clearly provides incentive to cancel a rental contract as there is very clear and easy profit to be made.

I've already made a post which discusses how you can tell if it is worth renting to move up or not so I won't go into that here. TLDR though, generally its not worth it and you should be renting the ENTIRE season instead.

I'd like to propose returning to a version of the prior rental system. Many people want contracts enforced outright but there is a clear problem in that owners don't agree to rental length and it would be unfair to force them to be at the whim of renters. However, if terms were required to be agreed upon up front this would solve most of the related issues (spikes near the end, lulls the rest) by forcing both renters AND owners to consider the risk of waiting to rent. Prices will always go up near end of season but a risk conscious renter could opt to secure a rental contract for a longer period to avoid the fight for power at the end. At the same time, this would cause less demand, albeit not entirely, near end of season which would force owners to make the risk/reward decision of accepting longer contracts, making sure they earn on their cards more often or risking their card not being rented.

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The purpose of this isn't to flame users, simply to provide renters information to make the best decisions for them. The way the market is built incentivizes maximization of profit and that isn't technically wrong.

These lists will be updated periodically, are reported to me via the official discord, and are fact checked. Note that cancelations represents the number of cancelations I have been provided proof of.

Blacklist:

OwnerCancelations
abh123452
abrockman1
akomoajong1
americaman1
b0mbax1
bennyonetwo2
dimmerobject1
draygyn65
druidsblood8
finale771
gamemusic1
godzillayolo4201
goldninja1
gusvzla1
homeyeats1
imno1
kpux1
louis881
matt-dub2
niallon111
obvious1
restinpeace1
sebastienv1
shootermacgavin1
splintermule1
splinter-rentals1
steemdiamond6
steemitromney1
steemstorage1
stephanus1
tarazkp1
trainz1
ulviux1
zugdaze1

Props to draygyn for putting himself here.

Whitelist:

OwnerRecommendations
clove714
czechglobalhosts1
monsters2themoon1
smalp1
uniqn3
kiokzz.spt1
chekohler1

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Post Tax

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For this post's tax It seemed fitting to offer you all Nobu shitting. Although Splinterlands offers us all the unique opportunity to play in an 'almost' free market, it certainly feels shitty to have a rental canceled on you last second.

Also yes, he uses his litter box like a human toilet and it is not as cool or convenient as you would think.

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Disclaimers

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22 comments
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Agreed. Agreed upon terms should be something that can only be dissolved if both parties agree.

My guild is doing the seasonal renting route and having a list of reliable card owners is really helpful. We don't want to put our money on someone who'd cancel before end of season just to price gouge. Hopefully, Splinterlands will be able to implement the system where it's fair for both renters and card owners.

p.s. If you're a reliable card owner who can provide us card power, let me know. Our guild is poised to grow to over a hundred members. You'll have a steady income stream from a guild that's paying by season.

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I like what you are doing, and would like to let others know, if you rent from me then the price remains the same till you cancel or the rental day is up. @method1973

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To support your work, I also upvoted your post!

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More information in the marketplace is definitely a good idea, but I do want to caution adding people with a single cancellation to something called a blacklist. Perhaps have a yellowlist for the low cancellations and leave the blacklist for people who are always adjusting their rent prices to market.

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Yes, my intention is definitely for those getting tagged here to be able to explain themselves clearly. If thats the case.

Also stating cancelation #s helps to paint that picture. You can clearly tell when an owner is blatantly going to cancel on you when they have done so to multiple people or multiple cards.

This is strictly data to make a rental decision on.

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I agree 100%, and I have some friends who do reprice five times plus a season who are really sweating right now rethinking their behaviors. Very well done spearheading this. Would you be interested in doing a discord server for this? I could help admin it.

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(Edited)

The way this is presented is pretty clear and is not 'provocative'. It is simply data and simply put, you ended up getting tagged because you canceled on somebody and it ruined their day.

It is provocative when you say someone “ruined their day”, and it is also called tag spamming for attention. I did not get tagged here myself, but stumbled upon this post for other reasons. But, at some point you will annoy people, and you will start to get down voted if it is the “wrong people”. Just be prepared for that if you continue along this path. As a player, you have the right to cancel a rental at any time you please, and no owners are going to put your name on a "blacklist". Do you think it would be cool if some owners started writing posts trying to smear people, for only doing something that is part of the normal game economy. This post is completely absurd in it's intended purposes. Especially the last tag that you made, so you can try and get a vote from the largest curation group at splinterlands.

Yes, my intention is definitely for those getting tagged here to be able to explain themselves clearly. If thats the case.

No, tagging people to come to your post to “explain themselves” is considered bad etiquette firstly, and second of all, you will end up tagging half the playing population at some point, if any rental change induces a “blacklist” smear. The word "blacklist" is considered to be a smear against someone's name, and it is personal.

Nobody has to give any explanation as to why they either removed a card from the market or adjust their prices. You do realise that people remove cards from the market for other reasons too? Some people do it to actually play themselves in the last few days of the season, or for other reasons, like levelling up cards, or delegating to other players/accounts - and so on. Please stop trying to paint this picture that everyone who cancels a rental at some point, is a villain who ruined someone's day without understanding the many reasons and nuances why that could be the case, or doing your own research for the actual reasons why. Raw data is just that, raw data. It does not provide the complete picture.

You are forgetting one other key factor here while getting on your moral high horse. The change of the DEC price affects rental prices, and as DEC does not have a static price, rentals prices will always need to be adjusted, if the owner chooses to do so. You cant force an owner to do what you want, when you have the choice to either rent a card from that person, or rent it from someone else - or not rent it all. As an owner I cant force you to rent my cards either. I cant "lock you in" at a certain price point and you can cancel at any time (including on the last day) It goes both ways jose.

It is a game of free choice on both the playing side and the renting side. This is how these markets work based on supply and demand. Make your own blacklist if need be and keep it to yourself, so you dont rent from those accounts in future, if that is you desire. This virtue signal shaming, is not the way to go about it.

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First off, want to thank you for taking the time and energy to write up a response.

It is provocative when you say someone “ruined their day”
Its not provocative to say it ruined someone's day, just simply truth. I've seen it constantly in the official discord since they have changed how EoS rewards work. I'm also not worried about getting downvoted. Hive is a project about owning your own social media and this post at its heart is about freedom of information. It is completely up to everyone involved how they choose to vote. Those utilizing the information in my post do so because they want to. No one is forcing them. I am also not advertising this specific post given its nature. It is here for me to share to those that ask for it.

Do you think it would be cool if some owners started writing posts
Also yes, I think the more information available in a free market the better. If owners want to decide to never rent to users that is on them. Got no problem with it here. It is their cards after all. At the end of the day, we can all choose to rent or not to rent and who is involved in those scenarios. Quite frankly, I'd love to see a post that said, hey fellow owners, don't rent to this guy because xyz.

called tag spamming for attention
As for tagging users. The intention was to be considerate given they could have canceled for other reasons instead of just to participate in the seasonal rent price hike. That said, I have removed the tags given the sheer amount of spam it causes and did so prior to your post. Its great that you have concern on limiting spam though.

Nobody has to give any explanation
Unfortunately, now when I add someone and it is only a 1 off instance, they are just going to be on my list and I won't be renting from them. Outside of the tag, for me to 'research' the reasons behind things would require me to personally reach out to each person which is also problematic. 1: most of these people don't care they are on a singular list which exists in the massiveness of Hive and 2: it is STILL spam to be reaching out to contact them all. At this point, for my purposes if I have proof that a user canceled on a renter within the 48 hours leading up to EoS, I'm fine with just not renting from them going forward.

Especially the last tag that you made
I appreciate you having an opinion on which content should be curated by monster curator and which shouldn't but to be frank, that really isn't your job, is it... I include a blurb about them as well as HBI because it is helpful information for new users and most of my content is geared towards them.

It goes both ways jose
Yes, I clearly bring that up in my post. The system is systematically fair but that doesn't mean it is also fair from a rental market risk perspective.

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I don't normally click into anything with a multi tag like this as it's usually spam but curiosity brought me in.

I have a decent sized collection in the game and am constantly updating and changing prices. The rental economy is a big part of the game experience and to keep static prices would not make sense to me. I contently raise and lower prices to meet market demand but don't cancel everything on the last day of the season.

What i do it look at my rental comparisons on a daily basis and cancel anything the is over 75% under the market value.

This is my income now and needs to be treated as such.

If i have a card rented out at 10 DEC and the lowest rental value on the market is 40 DEC then i am not playing the game properly. I would love to get to the stage where the markets reach a better equilibrium and prices dont fluctuate so wildly but until then i will try to be fair to renters while making a profit from my assets. It's a fine balance but one that needs to be found.

I would be careful mass tagging or adding users to a blacklist post like this as it is provocative regardless of intent. It's a good discussion to start but how you bring up the subject is just as important as the subject itself.

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The way this is presented is pretty clear and is not 'provocative'. It is simply data and simply put, you ended up getting tagged because you canceled on somebody and it ruined their day.

The number of cancellations is also listed to provide a clear picture of people that are indeed exploiting this poorly designed system vs just making deck changes.

At the end of the day, people renting cards want to rent them at a fair price and not have to worry about scrambling last second to replace cards they had been renting for long periods due to this system. For those people it just doesn't make sense to rent from someone that has a record of canceling and creating that scenario.

This isn't personal. No one is blaming you for making money or the most you can on your investment. This is just the market reaction to that behavior.

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If my name belongs on this list that's fine.

What I have a problem with is the spam. Every time you update this list, me and 187 other people get a new notification that we've been mentioned. Please fix that or remove the list.

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(Edited)

Ahh, good to know. Didn't realize it refreshed notifications each time. Apologies for blasting you.

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On the topic of this list. I think the problem is working itself out.

There's too much inventory on the market right now for the end of season ramps that occurred a few seasons ago to occur again. A few season ago there was a ramp that saw cards that usually rent for 5 dec suddenly going for over 1000 and it happened out of the blue.

Card owners have been chasing that again because its literally years of profit in one day but there's a lot more inventory on the market now and that's not happening the same way.

With my account of about 3000 cards, I can spend two 18-hour days managing my account around end of season. That's fine when every card 10x's in value but I don't think its moving up more than 30% right now. If this current season end goes the way I think it's going to, I think most larger accounts will cut way back on their end of season activity.

Finally, I think the devs are adding their card reserves to the market for end of season which is further flattening it.

For the record, I hate the end of season ramp. I would love for it to flatten out and be more consistent. I don't like being stressed out to no end trying to make enough to cover the whole season in one day and being screwed if it doesn't happen. But we play to the market in front of us, not the one we want.

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Agreed, problem is definitely starting to get better and ultimately the devs will fix this given the amount of publicity this is getting.

Anyways, I appreciate your thoughtful response.

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Hey guys, its come to my attention that my post is blasting people every time I update. As such, I've removed tags until I can figure out how to get it to not spam.

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(Edited)

I don't get it. Is this list based on people who cancel a contract at any time in the season? Or at the end of the season?

I rent out quite a good number of cards. I don't cancel rentals three days before the end of the season. But at the beginning and during the season, sometimes I need to change my rental prices (supply/demand, changing DEC price etc, you know?!). If a card has been rented out for 30 days, for example, I need to cancel that contract. Does that make me a 'bad' renter? Even though I refuse to cancel contracts at the end of the season, because I don't think I should maximize my profits and double my renting prices, just because I can - leaving renters without collection power right at the end of the season?

People have the right to cancel a contract - both renters and people who rent. There's no need to make a so called 'blacklist' when people are following the rules of the system. If you want to make one, make one for yourself.

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Yes this is focused on people canceling end of season. It seems you didn't really read this. Most of the topics you bring up are discussed.

This effectively is for myself. No one else has to use it if they don't want to.

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Excuse me, I did read. Apparently it's not that obvious.
If it's for yourself, why publish it on chain and promote it on Discord multiple times? You could use a spreadsheet...

My point being: putting people on a public 'blacklist' because they're playing by the rules of the game is not really a decent thing to do.

I get that it's annoying to have your rentals revoked - that's why I choose not to do it - but the system is what it is atm. Every party has the right to cancel, and there's no need to publicly 'shame' the people that decide to do it.

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(Edited)

You are right and I apologize for calling you out like that. My post about cancellations near EoS doesn't explicitly state that the blacklist of users is ONLY cancellations within 48 hours of EoS. I hope that clears that up.

You're right, I could use a spreadsheet but instead I've chosen to put it on Hive as it is decentralized social media. We own our own posts, etc. This is easily accessible to me wherever I am and it is easy to share with others that ask for it.

I want to reiterate that the point of this isn't to flame, shame, or otherwise put down card owners. It IS their cards, and they can do what they want with them within the system. The point of this, is to allow those that prefer to setup early season long rentals a guide to be more informed and able to avoid situations that will more likely result in last minute cancelations.

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