Splinterlands DAO - 500k HBD purchase proposal not passing
There is a discussion right now about the Splinterlands DAO selling their stablecoin holdings and purchasing and staking HBD for its 20% APR and using those returns to purchase and burn their own assets like DEC.
Right now the proposal is overwhelmingly not passing, mostly due to fear of low liquidity from what Ive seen. HBD isnt listed on any major exchanges besides Upbit and the value can fluctuate.
The biggest issue seems to be the lack of an incentivized liquidity pool. There has been hype around the PolyCub HBD liquidity pool headed by the guys behind LeoFinance but apparently there is an issue with it, which was news to me until a few guys mentioned it and it was mentioned by one of the creators of Splinterlands @yabapmatt on Hive as well. more recently.
So people are aware of it.
I am very curious to see LeoFinance expand on this further to see what the issue is. Not being able to convert bHBD into HBD seems to be a major problem.
They dont have it.
How can they "not have it"? It says theres 13k USD in the PHBD/USDC pool. Shouldnt there be an equivalent of the pHBD existing on Polygon to HBD available for conversion on Hive?
I sincerely hope that there is a solid explanation to what is happening.
Going back to the HBD question on Hive. I would really like to see what solutions can be presented forth to deal with the liquidity issue for HBD. Its obviously an attractive token to hold for many people yet we see very little offered in terms of upgrading its position.
This is out of my knowledge purview so Id like to see what it is we can do to make HBD a go to choice.
We have seen a lot of people like @taskmaster4450 or @theycallmedan discuss the massive potential of HBD but yet, when HBD is put on the spot, offered directly as a choice, it is found wanting.
How can we, in the short term deal with these concerns?
From an investment and risk management point of view I wouldn’t want to put everything into one basket (HBD). Can understand the hesitation of the people that voted against the proposal.
The funds already seem to be in the one stablecoin basket. I honestly believe its the fear of not being able to get out easily that is the main issue.
So they have all their funds in one single stable coin right now? Also not the best option. Do you know which one?
I think BUSD. I could be wrong.
Thanks 👍🏻
One of the ways is to "list" HBD and HIVE on Uniswap in a decentralized manner and provide liquidity incetives from the DHF.
For this to happen we need:
There is a multisg on hive as we know, and there is a proposal that works on improving this. This account should hold the hbd on hive and hbd on eth.
We can even go with a single stakeholder if the community votes on proposal for that.
A 200k HBD per year would fund a 1M liquidity pool with 20% apr, just from incetives, swap fees on top of it.
Varation on this are possible, someone just need to do it.
P.S. Users can still buy HBD on the internal DEX, it will just take time, probably weeks, to buy a big amount. The lazy panda account is a proof for this, he did it in this way. Further, there is always the conversions options, buy hive and convert it to hbd. (infinite liquidty :) )
Yeah I used it a while back when I returned the 200k hive stuck in the initial stabilizer to the DAO. Fbslo that helped had a rudimentary UI created.
What would be the initial steps needed to push this forward? Id assume Smooth would be someone to talk to. How decentralized can we keep it and what do you feel a cost of implementation would be?
Organize people that can implement it :)
Build the bridge. A hive account where users will send HBD, that will then be minted on ETH.
Multisig on hive and then the same on eth side.
A bot that will check for wallets LP on ETH and use that to distribute HBD on Hive, preferably daily.
A DHF proposal for LP incentives.
Well, if we start talking we might find out who actually can and wants to do it and what the drawbacks are.
lol, thats easy to say. Some things suggested, I can make happen in 2 hours. This, being so far out of my knowledge, probably takes me a 100 years. 😂
There is enough liquidity to enter and exit a 500k HBD position by using the internal Hive DEX. It can take a bit of time but completely doable. If you put buy orders at a little bit above market price (like 1%), they'll get filled. Same for sell orders.
Another option is to buy Hive and convert to HBD for a 5% fee. Then you can always convert the HBD back to Hive for no fee. If you use a liquidity pool in both directions, wouldn't the total fees come up to something around 5% anyways? The conversion option gives you all the liquidity you want, liquidity can't be the issue here.
It is doable but you need to be able to do larger sells and buys as is the case here. I wont look at the internal market right now but a 500k buy would move the price significantly. Getting in and out easily is a must.
This I cant answer. There is too much ambiguity about those conversions for my liking. Subject to a 3.5 day median price... I never used that myself.
Since it is a long term position, risks are low. Because 20% APR would recover any potential losses from initial acquisition of HBD in no time. So it doesn’t matter how you obtain, internal market or conversion. If there are losses, wait until they are recovered and then implement token buy back program.
I am pretty sure that no investor wants to incur initial losses when buying a stablecoin.
I’ve had the issue before where I tried to withdraw and had to wait.
I was just told it was an issue (I forget why) and was resolved in a few days.
I was never told not to withdraw more, but have been cautious ever since. Not trying to spread FUD because I know Leo tries and does a lot for Hive just wanted to share a similar experience.
No one is spreading FUD. This is just something I feel should be answered since it was mentioned by more than one individual.
Matt wrote the comment above before going on the Leo AMA on Tuesday and Khal spent a few minutes talking about this:
1- We are waiting on a new bridge version that will be deployed over the next 2-4 weeks.
2- until then HBD is being unraveled and staked into the bridge oracle.
Once the dev releases the new version of the bridge, the oracle will have 100% of the HBD backing bHBD on-chain. Yaba then asked "wen" and we said it is in the final stages and could be in the next few weeks before August. We are pushing the devs to deploy asap, but you know how development works.
New version will have better security and autonomous replaying (that actually works). For various reasons including double spends, that's why majority of HBD is either staked or off-chain atm.
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edicted had always mentioned the need for amm in hives internal market for trading hbd and hive, but no one to build, now that need has come knocking, 🤦♀️, and I wouldn’t blame Yabapmatt for being overly cautious,
Lets see what he has to say.
@edicted
Liquidity is actually pretty good on the order book and seems to be constantly getting better. Currently more than enough for casual users... looking at it right now anyone could buy or sell around $3000 without much slip. The stabilizer is doing pretty well.
The thing about AMMs is that they don't work unless we provide yield to them. If we pay too much it's not worth it and if we pay too little the liquidity pool won't be big enough to have an impact. Also far too many of these wrapped tokens are locked or just sitting on some centralized exchange... we very much have to trust the operator that controls the wraps... which is basically a non-starter for big liquidity pools.
I could say a lot more about this topic but...
Bottom line is that I wouldn't touch any of these wrapped assets with a 10 foot pole.
Well, this is a significantly bigger amount. There was a whale that bought a million HBD, "@panda" something. If I recall it took him quite a bit of time.
What if the witnesses were the operators?
Do multisig on Hive. Im sure ethereum has something similar on their side.
Is there something stopping the hbd stablizer from being turned on long enough to sell the hbd to them?
Not sure if thats the solution.
I would say buy bitcoin instead. But then you don’t like it.
Yep. lol
One day Or the other, we have to find a solution for this I guess. There will be projects and games on Hive that would be dependent on the HBD interests.
I always assumed BHBD and HBD were 1:1 ratio, so this is news to me. I'd like to hear the reasons behind this
I think I saw Khal say somewhere that he will address it.
Matt wrote the comment above before going on the Leo AMA on Tuesday and Khal spent a few minutes talking about this:
1- We are waiting on a new bridge version that will be deployed over the next 2-4 weeks.
2- until then HBD is being unraveled and staked into the bridge oracle.
Once the dev releases the new version of the bridge, the oracle will have 100% of the HBD backing bHBD on-chain. Yaba then asked "wen" and we said it is in the final stages and could be in the next few weeks before August. We are pushing the devs to deploy asap, but you know how development works.
New version will have better security and autonomous replaying (that actually works). For various reasons including double spends, that's why majority of HBD is either staked or off-chain atm.
Hmmm that's a bit of a worry.
Matt wrote the comment above before going on the Leo AMA on Tuesday and Khal spent a few minutes talking about this:
1- We are waiting on a new bridge version that will be deployed over the next 2-4 weeks.
2- until then HBD is being unraveled and staked into the bridge oracle.
Once the dev releases the new version of the bridge, the oracle will have 100% of the HBD backing bHBD on-chain. Yaba then asked "wen" and we said it is in the final stages and could be in the next few weeks before August. We are pushing the devs to deploy asap, but you know how development works.
New version will have better security and autonomous replaying (that actually works). For various reasons including double spends, that's why majority of HBD is either staked or off-chain atm.
Putting and locking HBD in savings is something every project on Hive 'should' be looking into more (and be doing) in my opinion.
If I ever will start a project build on top of Hive, I certainly will allocate a percentage to HBD savings.
I did not know bHBD is not backed by HBD holdings, wow. That explains why my HBD was stuck for a while.
Well, I would agree, but it seems the liquidity on the internal market can only cover smaller buys.
We should look into creating liquidity pools. How to do it, is a question.
Some think this would have been better if he started with 10K worth to "test" before moving more assets into HBD?
I did wrap some bHBD yesterday and it's frustrating a bit
Matt wrote the comment above before going on the Leo AMA on Tuesday and Khal spent a few minutes talking about this:
1- We are waiting on a new bridge version that will be deployed over the next 2-4 weeks.
2- until then HBD is being unraveled and staked into the bridge oracle.
Once the dev releases the new version of the bridge, the oracle will have 100% of the HBD backing bHBD on-chain. Yaba then asked "wen" and we said it is in the final stages and could be in the next few weeks before August. We are pushing the devs to deploy asap, but you know how development works.
New version will have better security and autonomous replaying (that actually works). For various reasons including double spends, that's why majority of HBD is either staked or off-chain atm.
When dealing with currency, liquidity (and distribution) are both keys. This is why I continually write about the 20% sustainable if the HBD is getting any use. The numbers are so low it is ridiculous.
This is one of the many reasons we need native smart contracts.
Some argue layer 0 smart contracts are a bad idea.
What ever is easiest to implement is good with me. Situations like this one show that our product cant be taken seriously in the broader market when we are talking larger sums.