Moving on: will wait to see how these new movements work out

in #sctlast year

This posting summarizes what I have learned from the previous posting "Do you think Palnet "holds no value" and disagree with minnowsupport bot? " and what I am going to do due to the conversation we had on that posting.

Primary reason of writing the previous post: the value of SCT

When I wrote the previous article, I wanted to discuss how one may think that SCT has no real value, as I believe that SCT (or steemcoinpan) was one of the most successful steem engine tribes so far in terms of trading volume, price, tag ranking (currently 2nd), number of active users, etc.

It seems that I was not aware of the more important issue

But it seems that lots of readers found different topic a lot more interesting, which is downvoting regarding buying/selling votes. And if I add one more, about whether a post is going to the trending section. It seems that buying/selling votes was a big, hot topic and the trending section was a big deal too. So I've been missing lots of "important" trends.

As I have stated before, I have never used non-steem engine bid bots before so I don't know much about issues regarding "traditional" bid bots. And I have seldom looked at the trending section (basically unless I misclick or someone specifically asks to read one) and only read my feed, I did not know (And hence did not care) that whether my posts (or others' posts) were on steemit trending section.

Wide Spectrum: Opinions

Going through replies and messages (including discord ones), I have learned a lot.

While it is impossible to reach consensus, I believe that most people would okay with the following summary:

Buying votes that makes "lower quality" postings to the trending section is bad.

and of course there are wide range of opinions.

some people think that any vote buying/selling should be downvoted.

some think that "small amount" vote buying is fine.

some think that vote sellers should be contacted/dealt with first.

some think that it is up to users' decision.

some think that downvote is bad.

some think that downvote is necessary evil.

some think that downvote is great.

I may go on and on, but I guess you are already tired of reading it.

Moving on: Let's see how these new movements work out

I still believe that there is a better way to downvote and/or communicate. However, now I understand where these downvote arguments are coming from.

While I am pretty much neutral to buying/selling votes, I felt that I would prefer to not get involved in unnecessary arguments regarding vote buying or downvoting.

And I also agree that there should be some changes, given continuously decreasing active users and steem prices. Why not wait to see how these new "movements" would end up?

So I decided to

  1. Not use steem-engine bots, in particular SCT and steemmonsters

  2. Undelegate my SP from SCT and Steemmonsters, as my undelegating would reduce the SP of the bot (while small) and it will actually help the users from these bots by reducing chance of hitting trending.

Wide Spectrum: Attitude and Behavior

People may have different thoughts. In fact, they do have different opinions. The more important aspect is how one communicates.

Attitude toward the posting and how people presented their feelings/opinions were diverse too.

Some are considerate and kind, while some are rude and low-level.

Some are adamant and stubborn, while some are open.

Some are informative and contributed knowledge and thoughts, while some are close to ignorant.

Some actually practice what they preach, which some are close to hypocrites (I thank @blanchy for pointing this out)

Wrapping up...

I am not sure whether I would continue writing articles in English, as I will continue to focus on the Korean community (and steemmonsters, of course) and SCT(steemcoinpan).

But I would like to express my gratitude for many steemians who shared their thoughts and enhanced my understanding. Just to name a few:

@whatsup: thank you for writing the reason for downvote, as I might not have learned why that happened. And of course for the following constructive discussion.

@tarazkp and @jayplayco: I appreciate your detailed informative conversation.

@ericet, @leeyh2, @jaydih, @philippekiene, @mermaidvampire, @chekohler, @kharma.scribbles, @lordbutterfly, @trafalgar, @aggroed, @yabapmatt: for sharing your thoughts via various ways.

@fenrir78, @ukk, @realmankwon, @happyberrysboy, @zzings, @donekim, @lovelyyeon.sct: for providing supports with "Thumbs up" function which directly gives the author SCT,

and @blanchy for providing super useful informative advice.


I wanted to discuss how one may think that SCT has no real value

Since we are here, should we talk about it?

I was told that people were getting massive STEEM upvotes for burning SCT (on sometimes mundane af posts). Isn't that undermining the value of STEEM?

So, what's the point of holding SCT? I had imagined maybe SE tokens could one day be listed on other DEX and/or exchanges. But, it seems to me what SCT is doing right now is to speed up the conversion/selling of STEEM. If that is what you mean by successful, then perhaps you are correct.

But back on topic,

I'm no bot hater, but I would like them to have better QA and standards. They need to stop offering "ROI" to disincentivize people from abusing them for profit.

  • not sure why someone downvoted this, so I voted the comment to make it visible.

Thinking that the sct bot giving steem votes for SCT would result in conversion/selling of STEEM might make sense if one considers that in isolation, but if one also considers fact that the sct already gathered more than 1 million steem (people spent lots of steem to buy SCT and SCTM, SCT miner) from exchanges and results in steem lockup by powering up, I believe that SCT actually helped steem BUY and supported prices.

But I am also interested in what would happen if we remove the bot. I already suggested reducing SP of the bot, and maybe ask further to shut it down if it seems proper.

곰돌이가 @glory7님의 소중한 댓글에 $0.028을 보팅해서 $0.012을 살려드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 6545번 $74.853을 보팅해서 $85.116을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~

Don't worry about the downvotes. That's just an alt of someone who's been blacklisted by @steemcleaners lashing out. His latest alt was flagged by the community for buying votes on gibberish.

But I am also interested in what would happen if we remove the bot.

I think that will be very interesting to observe indeed.

To your other points, it does make sense. I hope it's sustainable.

Point your finger to those steemit inc folks.

I would encourage everyone to undelegate from any bot and especially from Steem-engine bots.
Unfortunately Steem engine and @aggroed have become the biggest enablers of bot use. Right now by not having obvious memos that show vote purchasing it requires work to deduce if indeed votes have been purchased.

What aggroed has done is do what Fyrst promised he would do if on chain votes were somehow banned or unwelcome.

Id just sell votes for Bitcoin.

From creating steemmonsters, minnowbooster that add massive value and community support, Aggroed has turned into a money grabbing bot owner and one of the biggest obstacles for "Proof of brain".

Steem engine bots have the potential to do to Steem what @Whaleshares "Whaletokens" have done to WLS.
They are almost a carbon copy.
It ia actually good that we saw what happened on Steemengine so we are ready for SMTs in the future.

I shared my oppinion on your post and i apologize if you mistaken my initial comment as some kind of one sided attack against SCT.
Steem is huge and absorbing all the information about all the bots is not easy.
I just want to point out that i hold this stance regardless of the culprit.

Some do not, some will give Aggroed a pass because they like him. Some will give booster a pass because "well he talked nice to us" but those people i call
inconsistent and hypocritical.

I know about your contribution to the Korean community and i applaud that. Wish you all the luck going forward.

Thank you for sharing your opinion again. Your points are consistent and make sense (so I did not take it as one side attack).

In fact, now I am actually more interested in how this movement would bring. Maybe I should spend more time checking outside of the Korean community.

Thank you for providing us with a platform to hash out our opinions!

I hope you did not take offence to your post ending up in an unintended direction off-topic - but it shows how much of a 'hot button' issue bid-bots/downvoting is at this moment on STEEM.. I would say, the number 1 topic since it was able to drive a different topic to end up centred around it..
But I am sorry we derailed your original topic if you took it as a bad thing even a little bit..

I hope I fit in to the group that handled things respectfully, and I thank @lordbutterfly for chatting with me and I hope he took no offence to anything I said. I absolutely meant well. <3

Thank you very much for the reply. Even if it was not intended, as you said, I believe that it provided an opportunity to discuss the hot topic, downvoting & biding bots.

You are definitely one of the respectful debaters. I appreciate your participation again.

지난 번 글을 읽으면서 제가 다운보팅을 받은 것은 아니지만 이상하게 마음이 쓰리고, 불편했습니다.

크리에이티브 코인과 포토스트림 커뮤니티에 참여하면서 해외 스티미언들과 디스코드에서 이야기를 나누거나 그들이 하는 이야기를 읽고 있으면 한국 커뮤니티와의 괴리가 심하게 느껴지더라고요. 한 번은 디스코드에서 한 외국 스티미언과 언쟁을 높이는 일도 있었습니다.

그런 일을 겪고, @glory7 님의 지난 글을 읽으면서 그냥 마음이 좀 불편했습니다. 생각의 괴리를 매꿀 수 있는 방법은 보이지 않는데다, 시스템의 구조도 엉망이라는 생각이 들더군요. 저보다 더 무거운 마음이었을텐데 잘 털고 정리하신 것 같네요.

위에 "위선자"라는 단어를 쓰셨지만 제가 보기엔 그런 사람들이 정말 많은 것 같더라고요. 그런 모습을 보면서 정이 뚝 떨어졌습니다. @glory7님처럼 영향력 있는 분들께서 시스템의 성숙을 위해서 노력해주시면 좋을 것 같습니다.


격려의 리플 감사드립니다. 아마 현실에서도 많을텐데, 위선자들의 언행이 스팀에서는 적나라하게 보이는 것이 다른 것 같습니다.

The previous post has definitely turned out to be constructive. Thanks for summarizing what's been discussed back there.

Glad to hear that you found it constructive. Hope it would help Steem community to proceed.

오늘도 즐몬하세요~

jcar토큰 9월 구독 보팅입니다.
좋은 하루 보내세요. ^^

Hi @glory7!

Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 4.545 which ranks you at #2038 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has not changed in the last three days.

In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 115 contributions, your post is ranked at #50.

Evaluation of your UA score:
  • Some people are already following you, keep going!
  • The readers like your work!
  • Try to work on user engagement: the more people that interact with you via the comments, the higher your UA score!

Feel free to join our @steem-ua Discord server

Also thank you for setting the tone to have a constructive conversation.

I appreciate that you listened and am okay with us trying to find ways to improve the Steem User Experience

No problem. It seems that some of the major steem engine bots (including SCT) are already shutting down, following the movement.

While I am still not sure whether it would deliver the desired effects, I appreciate you and other influencers leading the movement that could be beneficial.

I personally am fine with the bots as long as things aren't being over promoted, and promoted late, but you community can handle it how it how you like.

My concern is only the value of Steem. :)

Just to also clarify, it's not just a matter of trending as money going through votes that are being bought are by definition not going towards rewarding content creators whose content alone are deserving of attention.

Imagine if widespread vote buying of $5-$35, just shy of making it on trending, goes completely unchallenged. On the other end vote sellers are getting far more money than they would on average than if they curated honestly. Over time what if 90% of all stakeholders decide to sell votes instead? That means good non vote buying content creators are only getting 1/10th of what they should and their content quality will reflect that lower incentive over time.

Additionally, even smaller vote buys can mess with curation in the Hot category and make it considerably more difficult for users to find good content and curators to do a good job platform wide.

Like other forms of content indifferent voting (eg, vote swapping rings, post/comment farming) vote selling just fundamentally undermines honest voting which is central to our value proposition.

Thank you for the reply. It seems that you are against all kinds of vote buying, and some people are not that extreme. We will see how it will turn out.

I personally have undelegated from these steem engine bots and asked them to lower their SP too (or stop the service itself). Again, we will see how it will turn out.

They will just come after the high steempower users. The difference is, the SCT community support eachother, and those americans fight eachother.

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