Bot or No-Bot!
Bot or No-Bot!
The current SPS proposal did start like this: Bot or No-Bot, but now, it is far deeper than that in my opinion. From my point of view it has nothing to do with bots in Splinterlands at the moment. First things first: here is the proposal. I must admit, I am so worked up about this proposal and yet, I do not know the author of the proposal! I need to change that. All I know from @davemccoy that @theukm is a casual player from UK who got tired of fighting against bots in ranked matches and wanted to play against humans. Phew! Aren't we all! Kudos mate, for taking the courage and making the first anti-bot proposal! Anyways, let start.
Yes, its been a while! Sorry, I was mostly out of town and had too much on my plate so couldn't post for a while. I am tired. I am jet lagged by 12 hrs. I feel slow like the Ancient Redwood below. Yet, I feel like I need to write about this proposal to gather some additional support in favor.
Why
First, I must admit, that this is not the most detailed proposal. It was also have been edited by @theukm multiple times based on response from Matt. Generally speaking I hesitate to support superficial proposals that lack depth. However, this is an exception. This is simply because, no details are needed on "how do we stop bots". This is for two reasons: first, we don't want bot owners to know what would be the line of attack. Second, we don't want to be too prescriptive to Splinterlands team on how to impliment the change. Based on these two facts, I think a broad scope and short-in-content proposal is just fine. The big positive for me is the fact that @yabapmatt was interested in implementing and already provided some basic directions.
But that's the background; why do we need some pro-human gameplay? Its obvious. Without it the Splinterlands 'game' slowly is becoming a defi platform for crypto people looking for ROI. We all know that all defi platform dies a slow death, and the only people who makes money are people who are early and the owners of the platform. I don't think we want Splinterlands to become a defi platform.
Twist
Well, that alone would have been a raging discussion, but then as this proposal was forwarded for an official vote, there was a twist. That reminded me the Hive Justin Sun saga. I don't want to discuss that segment in detail because @davemccoy already did that with a rare and excellent post:
https://peakd.com/steemmonsters/@davemccoy/status-quo-is-the-enemy-of-change
I urge you all to read this post above in detail. Only thing I like to add is this: that particular voting behaviour by that individual is not the first. This had happened a few times before and culminated with the 30M SPS proposal for exchange listing which was passed (I personally was strongly against it). I think Justin Sun episode proved that community can't be bought, and large investor can't muscle their way into a DAO without community support.
But hey, someone thinks, this time is different! Well, I say goodluck to that!
If you enjoy the Splinterlands game and want the game to survive; please consider voting YES to the current active proposal #28. Many thanks!
Glad you're back in town! :)
Yeah no kidding! Been always 15 days.
I totally agree with the issue detailed in the post, for quite a while now Splinterlands has been a small automated farm for its account leaders with the SPS, it is now so clear this that the rankings have become dominated by alternative accounts with the same name, this was one of the reasons I idly bet on Splinterlands through reward pools instead of battling those numbers and in the end having a lower reward than everyone else, maybe just like every game that wants to try and decrease automation maybe add safety catches after 10 battles or at a minute interval maybe?
Hopefully if this proposal passes and the changes implemented; we might at least have a temporary solution
As I mentioned to @davemccoy, I use XBOT but still voted YES to this. It's a case of everyone's doing it so I will too. I would prefer zero bots in ALL the leagues.
Looks like the proposal is going to pass
I think it is.
it took a lot of work
It has been an interesting change at the top. Hopefully it passes now :)
yes, indeed. It is hard to go against the community, so I would say it is a wise choice
Not speaking to Splinterlands specifically, but bots just annoy me in gaming contexts. After all, it means it stops being about who's the better PLAYER and becomes about who builds the better bot. Maybe I'm just old, but I get involved in games because I enjoy playing. I felt the same way about "cheats," in the way back when.
I've quite many a game league when it became obvious that the dominant players were all scripts rather than people. I hope the proposal passes.
Every game, especially card games, eventually get into a phase where there aren't enough players to provide 'liquidity'. Centralized games employ automation to support the dwindling player base during that time. This is normal. It is critical to have it moderated though.
Looking at what Matt mentioned as a possible way to combat bots was using Cloudflare and they wanted to implement it in Brawls & Tournaments. Did he say why there was no intention to roll it out to ranked battles as well?
Also, even if the proposal did fail, there is nothing actually stopping the SPL team from pushing through the Cloudflare solution if they wanted yeh?
The proposal will NOT fail. Also the intent was to try Cloudflare in ranked Modern. Will see how it will be implimented
No way for it fail now with blockchainff changing their vote. Would be interesting to see how it gets implemented and as mangomayhem mentioned above, how do we treat bot helpers especially since they are being used in Brawls & Tournaments as well? Bot helpers are like a manual bot that you need a human to interact with. Is that really the human interaction we are actually after?
so nice information
TeamPH is starting to build a Staked SPS position and we look forward to supporting these necessary proposals with more weight.
Yes, stake is essentially voice. I will tell you offline sometime how exactly we managed to pass this proposal :)
Awoo Awoo!
I'm voting in favour of this proposal. Also voted against 30M SPS one due to my hunch. Lets be honest, if the 30M SPS vote happened after this one, I would be surprised if it passed.
You know what was disappointing? I was watching SPL TV while playing my account (As I always do) and the streamer was actively using a bot and bot helper to allocate his team in Brawls, and speaking about how great it was. I actually said something to him on the chat, "how do you think using a bot during the stream especially may look towards new players, or potential players?" The response I received is that he was too busy to play and that he didn't see it as a problem, I laughed inside. For me, the rewards should go to those that put in the time not just the money, this game is meant to be played. It is skill based, by using a bot or bot helper you are numbing your ability to improve. We support those that wish to make a difference!
You know, several things you hit with the comment:
Just like many players, streamers are also going with the flow. They are not really streaming because they love it or want to increase their audience. They are streaming because SL TV pays them $10/hr. That's it! Whether it is a good stream or a bad stream, it is $10/hr! You know very well what happens to quality if there is no incentive to do better
Battle helpers are also like bots. Do you think we can have spreadsheets during a live active chess tournament? No! Surely chess player use a lot of tools and spreadsheets for training, but surely not during competitive play.
Why is the SL team allowing it? They are afraid. They think they will lose the little community that they have and won't really get any new players to replace. People who are around mostly here for the money. A game that pays. Whatever it pays. They are not here for the gameplay. Team knows it, and they are afraid because they don't have the courage or the resources to change it.
I don't think that Splinterlands can see it's real player base that is growing day by day here in Asia. Most of the viewers participating on SPL TV for example are Filipinos who do not bot but rent/scholar accounts. I hope that this passes as there will most definitely be a change up on the leaderboards. Your right, I would never imagine playing Chess with a manual next to me, but money surpasses love of the game, that is the unfortunate truth, let us try to be the difference. I am happy to know that there are people still fighting for the Community and the Players.
I think addressing the bots in modern is a huge step forward for one specific reason: NEW PLAYER EXPERIENCE! If we can't get new players to stick in low-league modern because the bots are too competitive, then this game will never take off in the next bull run. Having an engaging and exciting gameplay environment for new players is key to the success of the game and having a bot-free modern format would be a huge first step.
There are some "no" votes that I completely understand the justification for: it is too vague, it does nothing to address bad actors, and it provides no consequences for bad actors - and all this is true. But despite all these missing variables, I feel the positive of a potentially better new player experience is so important that we can sort out those finer details later. This is a great first step and I'm glad Dave posted and you reblogged about it.
I agree that the 30M SPS for the exchange listing was a foolish idea, but when you trust a community to vote then you have to accept that sometimes the majority may get things wrong. Hopefully the exchange listing comes at a time when the company and the DAO will be able to take advantage of bullish sentiment in the market. Ultimately, I think we are better off having SPS proposals and community votes like this, but must also understand that we won't always get it 100% correct. I sure do hope though we get it right on this bot proposal!