RE: SPS Governance Proposal - Split Ranked Battle Reward Pools By League
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I hate to vote against the very first proposal (and I'm sure it will pass as the largest holders are the ones at the top). But I think this is a very flawed solution. I do like the rewards to go higher as we rank higher, but not 30% of the daily rewards going to the top 10 to 200 players every single day, when there are 10's of thousands of players in the few league below. (please don't say "well just rank to champ", because that is a zero sum game as its clear the rules are set so that only a few can be in champs... ie it doesn't scale at all).
There are so few players in Champion because of the way the rules are set. We have less players in Champion now then we had when we had 1/10th the accounts we have now. While I think the larger players should get more, I don't think they should get so much more (I estimate this will be hundreds if not thousands of % more per match than Diamond or Gold players (because Diamond/Gold have Almost ALL the players since the bots move everyone up and the game made rules to restrict just a few hundred at the top.)
I am for nerfing no card bots, and I'm even 100% for limiting the payout by league, I think that's great. But when we have as little as 10 players in Champ, to give those 10 players 30% of the daily prize pool is gross and unnecessary. I for one will consider leaving the game if it turns out that only a handful of players get the rewards while the masses struggle for peanuts.
Please re-evaluate @yabapmatt and @aggroed ... If the proposal comes from you, then you know people will vote for it. Sadly I think this will have the opposite of what you intended. Instead of people leveling up to get the rewards, then many like me could end up cashing out (I have not done so because I loved how you spread things around since the early days). But the amount given to the few champ players takes us back to the old days where there were many fights about a top heavy system. Remember that you at most have 200 Champ players and its a lot to ask them to carry the whole infrastructure so please don't piss off the other 399,800 players in the game.
Its regretful that I post this because I love most of what you do, but this is something I'm passionate about.
Respectfully giving you my input.
QUOTED FOR TRUTH. A few players in CHAMPION getting as much rewards as thousands of players in SILVER AND GOLD combined is very unfair. It doesn't incentize me to level up. It incentives me to rent out my cards and find another game.
But is it really thousands of players in silver and gold, or a few players with thousands of accounts? I believe a majority of rewards for the lower leagues are going to a few people with a lot of accounts.
It's obviously thousands of players. Not even sure why you're even asking that question to be honest.
Dave, are you sure Champion is limited to the top 200 players? I thought it was literally anyone who got a rating above 3700? Couldn't that technically be hundreds or thousands of players?
Last season I finished with a rating of 3,751 and I was ranked 317th.
I think you're right. It's only the leaderboard that shows a limited number of players.
Aggy said that he will get us the info after the full season of this being implemented so we can all see the numbers and then vote again based on feedback. I know at some points during the season it is a dozen or so, but it does pick up in the last few days. But the way this will work is based per day, so that's why the data is very important so we can see exactly what it means.
Aggy thinks this will propel a lot of people to rank up into Champ, we will see if that is correct too based on the actual results.
ps... I just hit Champ and I'm 224th, so in a few hours we will see the total!
I'm in the camp of I now want to rank up. I've been getting meh returns in chests for a while now, and if you want to look for another game I'd understand. Just rent your cards out and make enough dec to play any of the other games coming to hive while DCA (DEC cost averaging) into cards with bids. I mean if you pull out out and push the market down a little bit for all the cards you sale I personally would like to thank that player. haha
!pizza
Who many it will be 24 hours after season reset ?
2,3 or 4 ?
They should than get 30% from whole rewards for this day ?
Taking the "decentralization" out of crypto one win/reward chest at a time. Great game, but summed up it is terribly top-heavy. The paywall, even at the rental stage, to go from sliver I to even standing a chance in diamond is pretty huge.
That's what I'm worried about, we will see when the proposal gets implemented soon. I hope everyone pays attention whether they are right or wrong on this topic.
Just some calculations, 270,000 sps / 14 days(avg season) = 19284 sps per day for champions.
The real problem is that unlike all the other leagues, when you drop rank after a season, champion is the only league that won't have players in it to soak up the rewards. This will give a perceived unfair payout to the first players to get back into champion versus all the other leagues.
So, lets say that there are only 10 people who get into champion, they will each get 1900 sps, or roughly 64 sps per game. And that's per day. Now, lets say there is 100 people that eventually get into champion, well that's still 190 sps per day or 6.4 sps per game. That's still more than twice the earnings I'm currently seeing in champion, and it's taken me nearly two weeks to even get into champion.
I'd like to see some data of how many players are in the champion league for every day of a 14 day season, perhaps the reward curve isn't very crazy as we might fear. The other thing to keep in mind, is that even if there is only 10 players getting 1900 per day, at current market values, that's only about $100. Perhaps it's by design that the top players are getting payouts like this, but now that we have a DAO proposal, the community will be able to decide if it's too much.
Fully agree with Dave here. That said, i think there is a solution to get more champ players. I think the part where players can choose to stay in a league below their CP should disappear. Auto advance should not be too hard to implement and that way the players with small (owned) decks may also have a shot on the leaderboard position instead of players with over 500k or even over a million cp rule the bronze. silver or whatever leaderboard.
Wouldn't it be already enough to have the pools split, but each of them get the same share?
Bronze: 20%
Silver: 20%
Gold: 20%
Diamond: 20%
Champion: 20%
I would assume that the amount of players gets less and less the higher they are ranked. So naturally one would be incentivised to climb to a higher league. This way people in lower leagues would still earn less than in higher leagues, which would prevent mass botting and encourages card leveling to climb further
yes I think a lot of people were thinking something like that. The good thing is that both Matt and Aggy have both said they will review the implementation and see if there needs to be a tweak. We will see soon enough I think!
Be interesting to clarify what happens before anyone gets to Champion.
Do the rewards just stockpile?
yes I'm interested in seeing that too! :)
Completely right and at begin of the season it is even worse. After rating reset nobody is in champions league and how many player will move up to champions league in the first hours of a season ?
So after 24 hours maybe 2 or 3 player in Champions League share at this moment 30% of all rewards in the game ?
This suggestion is really not well thought out and it should not only be possible to say "yes" or "no" here, because the intention goes in the right direction, it's just very badly done technically.
Yes, that's my concern as well. I guess we will see when its live soon.
Yes we will see, In my opinion if they want sort out the Champions League player than they should award them the full season and not only in the last days and before all rewards goes to a very small group.
How they can do it ?
In my opinion very easy - they should just change the rating reset rule, every Champions League player (not important his rating at the end if he has at least 3700) should set to 3700 and he will be from first day on in the Champions league. A player with 4800 has than 3700 and a player with 3700 also.
Ok they can do other rating resets, so that not every player he has the same rating if they want but 3700 should be the minimum rating. Than this change can make sense.
Hey @davemccoy - if the proposal isn't what you would like to see done then you should definitely vote against it, and not feel bad about it at all. That's the whole point of the proposal system. I would hope that proposals don't just simply pass because they come from us - rather if we see a strong push from the community for something and we also agree that it will be beneficial, then we'll put it up for proposal (and hopefully soon others will be able to submit proposals as well).
As for the number of players in each league - I just posted some data on that as a comment under the proposal post. It's definitely significantly more than 10 but it is very low, which is one of the problems we are looking to address. The incentive is just not there right now to get into champion league. Even for people who have the money to do it - it's often much better to bot thousands of accounts in Silver league.
The goal here is to change that, and really push players who have the ability to get up into diamond and champion league, which should mean a lot more card combining. If it really is the case that champ league players get huge rewards, then you can bet people will rent a max level set of cards (which is pretty cheap) to get in on that, which is exactly what we want.
My general philosophy is that we set the rewards to where we want them to go, and then the players can go get them. There is nothing stopping more players from getting into Champion league other than lack of incentive to do so.
Anyway, I'm not trying to change your mind. I think it's healthy to have some dissenting views on proposals. I was asked today in an internal meeting "what if the proposal doesn't pass", to which my response was something like "then we'll go back and talk with the community more and come back with a better proposal".
Also, even if it does pass and the changes get implemented, they're not set in stone. If certain things aren't working out then we'll talk with the community and publish a new proposal to change it.
Thank you for taking the time to address my concerns Matt. I also appreciate the data you posted as well to give everyone some more information on which to base their vote. I understand why you are doing this change and I appreciate the fact that you will evaluate it over time to make sure it met your goals.
You guys have always communicated with us about the issues, whether we agree or not. For that I am very thankful!
Thank you for voicing your concerns in an eloquent and civilized way as a large stakeholder - unlike others here who are attacking the "greedy whales". Apparently there is much more to the proposal than meets the eye, both in terms of how it can push for combining more cards and actually making less Bronze/Silver accounts (freeing rewards for those who remain) and on the other hand increasing Bronze rewards over Silver rewards. It feels like we will have to come back to this and adjust over time. !1UP
I agree they will adjust over time and thank you for the very nice comment Flauwy!