SPS DAO Mints Promo Card for SPS Stakers
e0f01d08ee099a23669c7ffde066cd1d00674917
Proposal Payment
https://hiveblocks.com/tx/e0f01d08ee099a23669c7ffde066cd1d00674917
Proposal
The SPS DAO requests the Splinterlands company make a promo card to reward SPS Stakers. Each SPS staker would be allowed to purchase 1 card per 1,000 SPS staked for the nominal fee of 1 voucher per card.
Purpose
The DAO is proportionately owned by all SPS stakers and its main purpose is to promote the SPS token and grow the Splinterlands ecosystem. These funds can be used to provide rewards at any time, and will be responsible for providing all rewards once the whitepaper distribution period ends.
This proposal seeks to illustrate the power of the DAO to interact with the developers of Splinterlands and provide rewards for the community in exchange for performing actions that are desirable to the ecosystem (e.g. Staking SPS).
Execution
If this proposal succeeds, the Splinterlands company creative and game design teams will create a playable, tradeable card suitable for the first DAO contracted promo card.
The team will also design a store page that allows each player to spend 1 voucher for 1 BCX of this promo card with a limit of 1 card per 1,000 SPS they currently have staked.
The team shall publicize a date to snapshot SPS Staked amounts that is not less than 24 hours before the start of the sale. This snapshot will be used to determine how many cards a player is allowed to buy.
As an example, someone with 10,000 SPS staked at the time of the snapshot would be allowed to spend 10 vouchers to purchase 10 BCX of the promo card.
Since there are about 950 million total SPS and currently only about 480 million SPS staked, it is reasonable to assume that between 300,000 and 600,000 BCX of this card may be minted. This likely makes it a common card similar to the recent Arkemis the Bear promo card, but the DAO will leave that decision up to the Splinterlands team. Ideally we would also see each card have a 2% chance to become gold foil, but we will also leave this up to the team.
The vouchers spent on this card are intended to be a nominal fee to allow a store page to be used by the team. Any vouchers spent will be burned.
Of note, should this proposal pass, the DAO could choose to participate and gain cards in accordance with its staked SPS amount. These cards could be used for future promotional purposes.
Background
This proposal is being co-authored by @davemccoy and @genepoolchlrn8r.
Based on the comments made on the first SPS DAO Staking Proposal, it became apparent that many in the community do not feel as if they own the SPS DAO and the funds there. Some community members expressed concerns that if the SPS DAO was accumulating SPS via staking, that it was doing so at their expense. @davemccoy had the idea that if the next proposal was the DAO providing rewards to the community, it could help convey the vision that the DAO will eventually be responsible for all rewards. The hope is that with this proposal, the community comes to better understand the role of the DAO in interacting with the Splinterlands development team (and potentially other entities) in order to provide services that are beneficial to the DAO and the community as a whole.
@genepoolchlrn8r had initial discussions with the Splinterlands team to determine whether the DAO would need to negotiate a price for these services and learned that while the DAO may eventually need to contract with the Splinterlands company, the leadership team feels that the DAO should not yet be paying for these services. The team agreed that the proposal above would be a reasonable amount of work to do without a fee in order to demonstrate the desired concepts.
Conclusion
It is our hope, that through this proposal, people begin to recognize that any funds accumulated by the SPS DAO through maximizing the whitepaper distribution of SPS are not being taken away from them. We all own the DAO in proportion to our SPS Stake.
In the short term, these funds are reducing inflation of SPS by "locking them up" in the DAO which will not vote and so will not impact voting or player governance.
Over the longer term, those funds will be essential to pay rewards and contract for services necessary for the Splinterlands ecosystem to continue to grow.
Sponsorship
The 100,000 DEC fee for this proposal was paid by https://Splex.GG.
If you are interested in having your proposals paid for, please visit SPLEX on their discord at https://discord.gg/Splex to make suggestions and work with their team on formatting and promotion of your proposals.
Edit: 1/16/2023 at 4:21 CT - Changed the line about the vouchers going to the treasury to note that they are intended to be a nominal fee and that any vouchers spent will be burned. The previous text stated that the vouchers would go to the treasury for future purposes. The new text is as follows:
The vouchers spent on this card are intended to be a nominal fee to allow a store page to be used by the team. Any vouchers spent will be burned.
Need more convincing on this one. i have not voted yet. But, i personally never agreed with the decision for validator licences to start paying out vouchers and SPS before they were actually active. I remember vividly before the sale started for the licences, Matt saying no rewards would be paid out on them until they were actively running.
So.. I dont agree with the need to give Vouchers utility at this time. because i think they have been overprinted to license holders when they shouldnt have been. So I am not mad they were printed, just dont think utility should be given to them at this time. I think the DEC / SPS aspects should be address and working properly before worrying about Vouchers having more utility.
This promo card isn't about giving vouchers utility. The voucher was intended to be a nominal fee.
The purpose of this proposal is to illustrate the power of the DAO to provide rewards to the community going forward and provide an illustrative example of how the DAO can fund rewards for the community... as long as it has funds with which to do so.
I think a Voucher print halving would be a better idea maybe.
Currently we are printing 40k vouchers per day correct ? what if we halved that to 20k Per day. I think it would be fair, earlier people got a headstart of 2x and now we would be back to the old distribution rate.
It would need to be like 80% validators so they have value of being the main voucher producers
Why do people keep talking negatively about the voucher print rate? I can barely buy $30 of RW packs once a week at 28.8K SPS with the vouchers I am getting after the small amount of nightmare packs I bought. The print rate seems perfect to me, it is throttled. Put the vouchers up on the secondhand market and I'll buy them. I'm not using hive engine, it is too complicated.
SPS staking right now is good bc of glx ive been making like 200 a day to 250 usd a day on just staking for right now buying sps back with the glx i converted it to when it was lower i swap back and forth only at 600K sps up to 280K glx but will be 600K glx 400K sps then all glx to buy sps until a million then 50% to buy sps to get to 2 - 3 million may need to buy a bit to but 25% to get GLX and add glx nodes to once droped ones are out sell some sps nodes to add even glx nodes and run them both to ensure i get glgt forever as well. I think nodes in glx are more important even.
It should be 15K to nodes 5 k to sps then bc im not about to lose a bunch of money when that halves and my node value drops a few hundred which every 100 is 2000 dollars lost lol obv ppl dont own many nodes or care bc they dont but this would hurt a lot of ppl with larger investments into this game and right now some are in the red on alot of nodes but there a long term play but changing it either more to nodes or all to nodes and ppl will beed to buy them or a node bc nodes need value
Hey @axlertwinblade ... I made a comment outlining my thoughts of why I am voting for it.
But I would say to you this has nothing to do with giving vouchers any utility. Vouchers are just a nominal cost. To me this has everything to do with the DAO as an entity showing how it can reward staked SPS holders at this time, and more importantly for the future, how it can reward anyone/anything that its members deem important.
give it something to boost prices so licenses can hit the next price level and some people can flip a few they bought at 800 for 5K or so. Thank god they did with the prices decreaing they would have declined much more with no sps and vouchers plus then nothing should get them like nightmare packs or any form of land etc.
Thank you for participating in SPS DAO Governance @genepoolchlrn8r!
You can place or monitor SPS Stake Weighted votes for and against this proposal at the link below:
Link to this Pre-Proposal
Updated At: 2023-01-23 22:43 UTC
At a minimum, the VOUCHER should be burned instead of sent to the DAO in my opinion. I'm not sure I like the idea of the DAO trading VOUCHER for other assets or giving out VOUCHER.
I would definitely be open to having the vouchers burned. They were intended to be a nominal fee to make it easier for the store page to be transactional.
I'd be fine with editing the post to make them "burned" if that gains more traction.
Sounds good!
only on sps not nodes they should get the vouchers they were advertised or the same proportion or take over all voucher production
works for me licenses will go up so will sps and one the flywheel starts then licenses will be probably one of the most benefited since they are perpetual in sps streams and they never end as well as provide a unkown airdrop of GLX nodes which will likely be valuable as well if they are even mkt price that will be a nice drop especially 1/1 at 1K id get a 16K drop now and more as the weeks go on and i keep buying at the curent levels or below.
I really like the proposal, and I like the concept of the DAO making money/amassing assets from which to pay out future rewards. I would not be in favour of burning the vouchers. There is no need to burn them IMO as they would be taken out of active circulation at this current period of oversupply.
One amendment I would suggest would be the purchasing threshold, which needs to be linked to the card rarity and average SPS holdings of players in different leagues. Under the current proposal in order to have the right to buy a maxed card, if common, would require holding 400k SPS. Currently, only the top 197 players' accounts hold enough staked SPS to qualify to buy a maxed-level card. The rate of one voucher per 1,000 staked SPS sounds OK, but it would perhaps need to be a legendary or epic-level card.
Others on Discord pointed out that in all other cases, vouchers are burned when spent. If this idea works and the team is willing to put in more time for us, I think we could potentially do other cards in the future that we sell in DEC to accumulate funds for the DAO.
Anything that adds value to the DAO is good in my mind bc if it goes up everyone will be a whole lot more active and as soon as DEC stops being abundent it will likely spike and really cause some ppl to burn alot of sps making any connected assets like nodes pop hopefully up to 10K after i buy enough lol would like 50 so i can have a good amount of SPS pretty much guaranteed to come in each day and vouchers as well. Plus right now the ROI is more than or about the ROI without counting GLX which im also going into the packs but maybe the dao should acquire some of every pack and asset to just to have a say 15% portion in all sorts of assets and part of it be high yield rentals etc. So many ways we can take the funds and enhance the money being made which will attract players push assets up etc.
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it could be really interesting, depending on when this proposal would go into effect. if passed.
Depending on the DEC-B and Voucher circulation, it could be not many Vouchers in circulation and spending 1 Voucher would be a nice use case. We could even do 2 Vouchers to burn more.
Also would prefer to burn the Vouchers.
Starting to save mine now getting a 100 ish a day i think so now ill prob just hold them in lps and also buy and sell then they move constantly getting more and when there are enough buy another node and promos to. Basically now just stacking assets needed to run the game the picks and shovels and setting up guilds to play my self for right now to get a nice start on getting soul bound cards in many accounts and building those with gladious cards to rent out as a handicap almost where ppl can delegate or deposit dec to rent a deck to use them and split x with myself the account owner rather than own all the decks focus on renting the harder to get cards for larger splits.
Are there now gifts from the Dao to get people to vote positively in the other proposal where it is about the staking rewards?
reeks of voter manipulation!
Hey Bronko, I don't think this is tied to any other vote, at least I'm certainly not part of it.
I was talking with @genepoolchlrn8r and said essentially that many in the community would start to understand why we want the DAO to be valuable once they saw an example of it. In other words once players saw the things that could be done from the DAO (the DAO can vote collectively to reward anyone they want), then they would be more excited about it.
So this concept resonated with @genepoolchlrn8r and he came up with the idea of buying a card from the game DEVs and distributing it to the staked SPS holders. Upon convos with several team members, they suggested that a nominal voucher be used but the team wouldn't need to be paid otherwise.
To me this is a win win for anyone that owns any SPS (staked or not). The reason is things like this can be repeated and at some point players will get the message that staking SPS is a great thing to do. This will create incremental demand for the token. Value is created by increasing demand greater than the supply.
This is just a small proposal meant to get the ball moving forward. It by itself will not magically fix everything, but its a start in my opinion, and everything must start somewhere!
I do think you and everyone should always vote on each proposal on what you feel is right and good for both yourself and the game overall!
actually this would be a proposal i would vote for. but the timing has a bad aftertaste. to me it looks like genepool wants to influence the other proposal positively. and now shortly before the election bribes the voters with gifts and takes you because you are one of the people who enjoy the most trust in the community (these are common tricks in politics and co). whether the initiative came from you or whether genepool had the plan before and just wanted to have your name on the paper i can't see from here.
I brought up the original point that people would understand better how the DAO works if it gave out something to the Staked SPS holders. I know that is the whole purpose from my end and I think genepool agrees with that point.
I honestly don't think any of the 3 proposals we have are going to be a big deal whether they pass or fail. In this proposal we are talking about 1 card for 1 voucher for every 1000 Staked SPS. That's not something that will tilt the scales for anyone, even the richest of rich SPS holders. Its more to bring about discussion and show what is possible than anything else.
I do appreciate the kind words and respect @bronko ... And I want to say that its very cool that you are looking out for me! And that goes doubly more for the community, I love that you care and want you to vote on any proposal always how you feel is best!!! :)
perfect no changing things for distribution to nodes by lowering the voucher pool which i don't think is good at all would hurt nodes more if anything nodes should be the only voucher production or a very small part to sps holders like 25% take the reduction from that so it requires more ppl to demand nodes bc they will want vouchers for things or buy them from node holders pushing up those to not decimating the price it was already halved. Not sure ppl under stand what the dao does bc they dont have enough in it to care or make much with it.
Wouldn't this only work if the SPS had to be staked for longer than one month. I can see SPS being staked and un-staked after getting the cards.
-Maybe there should be extra incentive for those that have been staking for the past year.
-Maybe even an incentive for those holding a License for the past year.
Hey @muhsound this is a very good point and ideally one day we will have a mechanic that can do that. As it is though, the staking process lasts for 4 weeks only (and done incrementally each week). The concept you mention would be great, but isn't likely to happen anytime in the near term. So sometimes you do the best you can with the circumstances you are dealt.
This isn't a perfect way to do it, but it should achieve several major objectives. I wrote a separate reply to this post outlining my thoughts on that, and welcome you to read it and comment if you like.
I do think there can be many new ways to get things done over time, and I like the ways you've identified a few already. I just think we have to walk before we run and this is a good start!
I like this proposal for two very important reasons.
First, the DAO should always be working to give staked SPS value.
Conclusion: This proposal rewards SPS stakers.
Second, the discussion of the DAO and its role in the future is important.
Conclusion: This proposal will do a lot to help people understand the role of the DAO.
I see a lot of points already in this post about what people would like to see, changes that could be made, and essentially new ideas of how things can be done. All of them are good because it creates discussion, and discussion brings forth ideas.
Whether this particular proposal meets your individual expectations is certainly up to each person, but I myself will vote for it because I believe it is smart for the DAO to find ways to reward SPS stakers. I believe this will encourage MORE PLAYERS to want to own and stake MORE SPS over time. This is just one proposal, but the power of the concept can be repeated many times in many ways.
I'm super happy we are getting started and thanks to everyone that supports this whole project called Splinterlands! :)
Been thinking about swapping half my sps to GLX on a day when the ratio is close and may have to do it very slowly but want to 5-10X the GLX for 30-60 days by swapping 300K more sps to GLX over time when I can get a good rate for glx as its been worth much more at times and flucuates allowing me for some nice swaps. But the APR is slowly getting lower and i dont see it getting crazy low for at least a few months so might as well swap it so its half and half up my daily income to a few hundred use that to invest half into the assets that make the most sense like sps when it is .025 or below or glx when its .029-.031 and sps is close to 3 then all sps goes to GLX for daily rewards. Also HIVE, BEE, SPT, a new token that will be issued to my outpost that will act like SPT but will be only issued when new non token assets are acquired and only then will say 1000 more be added to a staking contract to distribute them over the year and new distribution contracts will be added monthly to update the inflation based on the growth of assets in the fund and the trading value will be NAV which will be published up to as real time as possible. The new token will also offer a bonus amount of the new outpost token if SPT is traded in a x/y ratio and that SPT will be used to create more income for any members posts in the outpost. The staking token will be purely for the capital in the DAO and to hold the assets to create a new cash flowing reward token so its not backed by nothing. Once it gets traction there may be a second class of reward tokens issued for SPT and ONEUP swaps as well as cartel tokens can be swapped to obtain this token which will likely take a year to raise the seed capital and release the first SplinterTalk basic income dao backed by actual cash flow producing assets like stable coins etc which can be reviewed on the financials and on chain for proof of tokens. Also we will operate a few different sites for revenue and some of which could be very significant if they catch on the right way like one could generate a few million then the funding problem is solved, others can generate im not sure yet but will be more than now like the use of AI to post hundreds of posts on steem to mine votes and tokens to swap back to hive and bring value into HIVE and the fund and leech off steem and other blockchains that are reward for posting just set up 10-20 accounts to vote and comment on each other generating revenue and followers by following everyone you can re blogging ppls posts and voting half of the votes on others in the begging with a message to follow for for votes, contests and sometimes free give aways or games like poker for spl cards. Plan on building a pretty cool idea with poker which will be interesting. Could be really cool table top version as well as develop a simple power DAPP to do what i want. Also have a dice game instead of hive bet spl cards and only certain kinds that we are able to buy a ton of and make the house edge more than the dice game to like 10% and have a casino spl war game all in my future metaverse plot in decentraland where there will be all sorts of things you can do that are hard to do but we will have a online local btc and a gift card tokenization so ppl can trade gift cards at a say 10-30% discount for btc and i will be a market maker on that all day taking he gift cards after they have been registered offering a X store discount NFT where I would use my 70% cost gift card and purchase ppls orders for 85% off making a 15% margin or selling the gift cards outright, or finding a easy to buy item with gift cards like give better rates to useful cards like visas, mastercard, gas, walmart, etc where i can sell them very easily. Have a bunch of swap sites that are just referral commissions when someone swaps and optimize them for SEO and give ppl a reward token that builds loyalty and gives you credit for a swap later to knock of some fees. Also offer to purchase any item for 3% cash back and pocket 3.23% using the clubs entities cards which there will be a couple of entities to get cards issued to and that way when its slow they can bill each other and net a few hundred a day depending on the number of cards. Any cash back will be used to send to each members custom card for the club. The club/fund will at first only issue schedule K-1 as it will be a LLC and a LLC (S Corp for trading MTM) as well as the DAO owned 100% by the LLC in the Cayman Islands so the unit holders of that own 95% of the trading S Corp and BCKC Capital owns the other 5% as a additional bit of complementation for the trading/risk mgmt team. For the first bunch of members they will be recruited based on there skill set and what they can offer the fund that it does not already have basically put the leadership team together with a person that is a expert if possible in all areas we need such as coding, software development, taxation, accounting, investment analysis, trading st and lt, foreign law for companies, blockchain laws, Incentives and areas where those incentives are to operate a blockchain and digital asset fund that will be operating in probably 50 different types of investments by time (if it ever gets) past 5 million. Got about 100K start from my loan which will become a contribution to the extent the other members contribute to the fund if not it will either be a loan or personal accounts or for a different fund. There will be a financing fund as well to provide debt funds using up to 25% of its capital in the form of a revenue share up to 3X the capital and 25% of cash flow until paid off. Also can try to issue a bond like instrument with a lower rate and non recourse financing. Will also want to do micro loans as well as finance projects and land purchases like mortgages in the metaverse and make sure we can foreclose on the property and the lending will be much more strict with collateral that must be locked but still can be directed and put in safe lps or be in a brokerage account as long as we have a lein against it or can put a lien on a house for the collaterol to make sure that they pay it back and since its higher risk the roi will be pretty large like binance futures funding rate in the 100% plus range at times. The overall goal of the fund is to provide returns using stable coins and gaming assets as well as in time grow the stable coin portfolio to larger than the original principal and do a refinance with a debt fund year 3-5 to return a big chunk of capital and possibly get a business SBA loan to expand to physical large commercial mixed use real estate where as soon as we are capitalized can turn it into a blockchain haven for ppl who want to live that life and not use traditional banks. Everything will be set up to be blockchain friendly including that everyone will be required to use a blockcard or have one so that crypto an be sent to it in case of a refund etc. Rent can be paid in some in game currency, major crypto and stablecoins. In the basement there will be SAAS services for nodes and syndiated staking funds, miners that produce heat to heat the building or areas of it, maybe put a miner of a profitable currency in each apt where in the winter the vent can be opened to inside and in the summer can be opened to the outside and the buildings air can cool the miners as well as the vents outside and the heat can probably be used to create some sort of renewable energy using wind power by harnessing the air flow. Also can be used to possibly heat water in a pool if the rental is a smaller one or even a larger one with a pool. If a larger one the top floor will be a trading floor, local exchange, VR exchange where ppl can trade p2p in the metaverse, a gaming e-sports floor for different games and a floor for various guilds and other space to work on projects as long as the building gets a 51% interest for providing the space, power and other things. This could get the building into some cool startups that add a crap load to the ROI. Again using my referral site tenants will have a tablet in the apartment as well as a mounted thing on the door with all of the services the building offers and the tablet to order them like car detailing will have a car detailing business that details cars for about 200-300 a car an will pay a independent contractor 50-200 depending on the services. The customer pays either with cash or anything i need to pick up by just holding onto it and that will be my job collecting loot and making sure the customer is happy then offering the referral site as a way to quicky get this for free and 25% off next time bc ill make 4X that way and they pay less. Also want to get a bunch of cheap tablets have SPL, TD and GLG loaded on them and accounts as well and goto a homeless shelter and show them the game and when they win or what ever amount i will pay them cash for 50% of there winnings from battles and then if they are reliable and good ill get them a tablet with cell internet and get the cheapest plan possible and have a contractor play all the frays for me for a split in many guilds so I wont need to take that time eventually either and can focus on just finding new strategies for investing, taxes, and new areas to get into as that is my area is finance. Ill need to find contractors likely in countries where money goes further like Africa if I can find a group of ppl there that want to go hamm on a guild bc its like striking gold to make that much there then that is where i will focus bc i can pay what i need and they can get a much better living. Also will be able to help homeless here and hopefully start leagues between colleges, investment clubs at colleges etc and all while showing them my referral site that will make it so easy most ppl will do a few hundred or 1000 ish making it only 1000 ppl to get a million from it and the few hundred ppl i researched it with said they would pretty much all do it. So as long as my health is ok like i just had a month where i was in rough shape my back was like 5X what it usually is the morphine they have me on didnt touch it and i actually was in the hospital for a week then sick with the flu on new years in the hospital and a few weeks afer still sick a bit.
Hey @bcarolan639 that's a lot of information and I don't have time to address it all. But I will say a few things. One I hope you get your health better as that is always the most important thing. Another is I own both SPS and GLX and happy to own them both. I do think one will outperform the other, but I don't really get in the weeds too much and try to figure out which will do better.
Finally I can tell you are an "idea guy" that is very creative. You have some interesting ideas and solutions to issues we face and I think you should definitely pursue the ones that most make you passionate. I don't have tons of answers in some areas, but I can tell you have given this great thought.
I'd give you a suggestion of breaking down your ideas into more compact and separate topics so that they are easier to understand. In other words, you cover a lot of ground on many topics and many ideas, so it obvious that you have a lot of good things to say, and I think its good for you to also be heard. Most people can only digest one idea at a time, so that's why I suggest this to you. I respect your thinking and would like to see you follow up on your ideas too!
Thanks Dave! appreciate it unfortunately that's what kills me and slows me down a lot i would have been done with all of it years ago lol. Im trying to get things done im up 20 hours a day but i take a lot of breaks or go watch tv bc my back is killing me like right now its lie a spear is though it so its time for the 3 am joint lol. To your point on topics i know im trying to work on not doing that my brain goes faster than i can type lol and i think about 2-5 things at a time as I'm doing something else lol. Deff going to be posting more of a organized way or just in organized white papers or specified places with my post here being copied from my website post to my Tribe here. 5 of the core ideas are very close to being done the five that will be the most profitable lol. It may seem like im not doing much but i really get maybe 4 serious hours a day between having to get up and not do anything or sit in my massage chair for a hour or two and just do nothing bc its really bothering me like now is that time im done for the day lol. or night when ever it is i have no clue anymore i thought it was morning at 1130 pm the other day lol was getting ready to check the stock market lol Entered trades and realized it was closed lol. Also im the only one working on it right now like actually doing things for it so thats the other slowdown. Am following though on the 5 ideas was talking about some changed a bit to accommodate new rules but the guild , card, funding site affiliate bonuses, and curation income are all pretty much 90% now so at some point in the next month or two they will all roll out and we might have that debit card i was talking about I pretty much figured it out without needing anything done just a new face on the card for are logo and metal cards possibly like choose the metal like if ppl wanted real gold they could if they can pay the 1-2 ounces of it and the labor im sure for a custom job. I may ask lol i kind of want a 2-3 ounce silver debit card lol. The first ideas ive made it 90% and another thing that takes a while is they are all connected so there going to launch all at once for a test group then go live. My best guess withing 2-3 months it will start being promoted to ppl we select then after will open it up.
I see what you are saying but it is nowhere near 2/3 voters it's about how much sps the voter has so if 10 people have 1 million and say yes and 2000 people have 333 thousand the 10 people win over the 2000 people because they have over 66% of the vote when 1 sps is 1 vote. So, is that actually the majority of the community? No, it is not so that's where the issue is, the voting caters to the Whales and not the community as a whole. It should be every person is one vote or ten votes, I don't know, but the way voting is set up is unfair and actually does not give many people a sense of community.
The vote is 93% for this at this time, so its far more that 66%.
Regarding the way the voting works, that's how its designed. In theory the people with the most money in the DAO (and likely the game) have the most to lose by having a bad proposal. I think you are underestimating the "whales" here.
I know in my case, I want to see many players come to the game, play it, and be excited about it. So that's how I vote. I'm sure that's how many vote too.
But I do agree there might be a few large whales that only think short term, and thus we will not have a perfect utopia. That's actually rectified by more players keeping more of their SPS and voting against the short term thinkers.
While it might be nice if we could have a world where every person could have a say no matter what stake they have in things, I think there would be many pitfalls to that system too. I don't want to debate macro political or economic concepts here, but in my opinion this system is pretty strong and makes me want to not only hold my SPS, but makes me want more.
ps... that makes YOUR SPS more valuable when me and other players do that
I like that I put a lot of my money on the line and have a lot to gain (or lose) by the game succeeding. And I 100% agree that the game should listen to the players and do their best to make sure all stakeholders are happy.
feel like we need like a huge educational voluntary session where ppl learn about economies and money in the game ppl dont get it in the real world if they did we would all be retired at 25-30.
Now this is a good proposal! Showing the function of the DAO in a way that doesn't even have a hint of catering to the top at the expense of the bottom is an excellent approach. I just hope the Splinterlands team decides to keep with the spirit of this proposal in the design of the card.
Just want to make sure I understand the snapshot part though. The way you envision it working is if someone with 10,950 SPS buys 10, then buys 50 more SPS, that would only entitle them to 1 more card through the life of the promo? If not, I need more clarification. If so, is the framework already set up for that or would it need more looking into?
yes it would be per 1000 SPS staked. So anyone close as you suggested would probably want to round up to get an extra card! And glad you like the idea @half-fast :)
Do I understand it correctly that the only thing you would be taking as a payment for this promo card is the voucher? Say I have 10k sps staked at time of screen shot, I would then give the dao 10 vouchers and get 10 promo cards in return, no sps changing hands?
Yes that's exactly correct.
What does this achieve? The maths on this seem absolutely terrible.
If I have 10K SPS, i can buy 10 BCX of a common card at the cost of 10 vouchers or let's say $0.90 currently - and using the average common CL card, this promo card will be worth around $0.04 each, do a total of $0.40 value.
This is a -EV transaction.
It also won't even chew up many vouchers. It's kinda pointless as far as I can tell.
What do you think I am missing, that counteracts these points?
Its up to you and you will be able to make that determination once the card comes out. If the card will be worth less than 1 voucher then of course you wouldn't want to do it.
I would think the Devs would make a card that has a value of greater than 1 voucher or it wouldn't be effective. But having said that, who cares if that happens?
If no one wants the card, thus there was no "benefit" to being a staker of 1000 SPS, then there would be no value distributed. But also there would be no loss either.
On the other hand, if the card turns out to be worth more than the cost of a voucher, then everyone that staked 1000 SPS would get a chance to own something that they think is worth more than the cost of a voucher. Some chance is better than 0 chance.
Regarding your comment about this not chewing up much vouchers, I have 2 replies.
Again, maybe and maybe not. Depends on the card and the participation.
Maybe you consider it pointless, which is ok, but I feel its important for people to think about how the DAO can get things done to help anyone within the SPL ecosystem. In this case the proposal is attempting to reward SPS stakers, but someone else can make a proposal to help someone else.
So I wouldn't consider this process pointless, I would consider this process as just a step in a long journey to make something great.
You have to start somewhere and not all proposals have to be complete gamechangers. Sometimes the purpose is just to learn what you can and can't do.
I hope I counteracted your points, but its ok if you still view it as pointless. Honestly I just value your time (and everyone else's) spent discussing it and contributing to the whole process! To me that's the point and will make us much more effective in time!!!
I mean you let it open with your preposal so the team could also create a rare (or better) card.
I think if you get 5$ discount by buying a node with a voucher the card should be at least rare and not common for one voucher to really add a interesting oppurtunity, I mean if the card is rare you can also say 1 BCX with 1 Voucher for every 3.000 SPS to reflect the differences in the BCX you need to create a max-level-card.
Yes we left it open in the proposal because that's only fair because they (the team) are doing this for free. We offered to pay them to make the card, but they said they didn't need money for this one (but maybe for future ones).
I really have no idea how good the card will be or what the team comes up with, but I think the proposal is a good thing because 1) everyone can choose whether to buy it or not based on a 1 voucher cost and 2) we all can see what is possible over time by these type of proposals even being considered.
One card is just one card, but of course I hope its cool and something that we all feel good about and enjoy! :)
The question is what will be the further way, I mean when the nodes will be a success, maybe a voucher will soon be 1$, 2$ or even 5$ worth and you will bite your ass that you spent your vouchers for a card who cost arround 0.2$ like Arkemis the Bear, who know this ?
Definitely that's an choice everyone will decide when its released. But I like that we get that choice and each person can decide for themselves! :)
hope so my 18 soon 20 nodes will be worth alot of money lol
Just remember this is just ONE of many ways of doing this. I love that you are giving more ideas (that may in fact be better). But the point is to get ONE done, then we can have lots of proposals with all kinds of good ways to do things in the future! :)
let's say I will definitely don't spend 100k DEC to get a proposal ready for vote.
Maybe I would think about if you would get the 100k back when you proposal is successfull, but not in this way that Splinterlands can put every proposal immeiately for free in and others have to pay 100k dec.
I believe they are just making sure the proposals are serious proposals. But one day I think there will be more ways to submit proposals. The most likely will be a 'crowdsourcing version' where lots of players get together and fund the expense together because they feel it is important (but a small amount per person).
Really ?
I mean I am not a prophet or a fortune tellers but I think that most people would come to the causal chain that if they submit a spam or joke-proposal their reputation would be spoiled a lot with the downvotes they receive ... I guess you would not like if your reputation fall under 0 cause you had submitted such a propoal isn't it ?
So it would be just a try how many people here really care about destroying their reputation just for fun.
You can't base CL $ value to a promo card for certain reasons as promo is only available on shop vs CL can be obtained from packs and packs are also tied to DEC peg and all those mechanics.
It's on individual it decide if it's worth cashing out the vouchers vs buy the card. Depending on the card and how useful it is, market will auto price it. Also $$ value of vouchers change as well. So if you think that vouchers are priced more than cards you can sell vouchers and buy card from market at cheap rates.
TLDR; It's a card that can be played and will definitely be fun to collect and may be useful in many scenarios.
This math isn't really correct. The community isn't that dumb, they won't sell BCX of this card for less than $0.1, since it would obviously lose them money. Given the cost of the card (one voucher) plus the staking requirements, and the expected BCX coming out, I'd guess this promo will land around $0.3 or so.
if you get like a 100 vouchers a day it is less relevant i just sell them for now to get glx and will be saving again soon bc usually i can have enough lead time with the sps stake and nodes to get them
Will just lower the price of sps but i like it ill have about a million plus by then so ill get 100 cards so why not lol. Then i can sell them and buy sps cheap with all earnings if it drops.
Hi, recognising the concerns around this incentivising a pump and dump of SPS. Would you consider creating a regular, annual DAO promo card with a daily staked SPS snapshot taken over the year (similar to the SPS airdrop)? This would incentivise continued SPS staking and dis-incentivise ever unstaking. Each time a player reaches 1bcx threshold, they could unlock/purchase the airdrop with one voucher. This could dampen any potential pump and dump (pumpy dumpy TM) effects. I'd be interested to hear others views on this tweak.
This is a good one and make it significant so ppl want to get that sps and hold it for as long as possible without selling and maybe a year end GLX and SPS bonus or other assets like packs based on time and amount held.
@davemccoy sorry for the bump but would appreciate your opinion on this!
Hey @dizzypascal thanks for tagging me so I can reply, it wasn't my post so I don't get the same notifications.
I think your idea is a very good one and I'd completely support it. In fact I've also heard ideas that are similar that I like too. Like give out a good perk for x amount of SPS staked CONSECUTIVELY for an entire year (in other words any unstake would break the streak and the player would have to start over.
I like all ideas that are like this and would support them. The biggest issue would be getting the team to make it as it would take DEV time. But I like your concept or any variation to it, as it more purely achieves the goal of encouraging and rewarding true hodlers.
Thanks again for the tag!
ps... I really don't think this proposal will create the pump and dump effect some are worried about. Imo its simply too small of a reward for too much of a stake. At worst I think it might encourage a few players to move their liquid to staked for a month, but maybe after they do it they might find it was more rewarding than they thought (because of the GLX token airdrop).
ill be able to prob max it and sell the rest would love this to go though but not yet until im done buying sps with GLX back to the 1 million mark for both is the idea bc of the different rates swapping each day at advantageous times i crate glx and sps extra tokens on the swaps to.
My main concern is how this fits into the promo card schedule.
As previously mentioned in a town hall by Aggy, we finally settled into a system of 4 promo cards a year (around one per 3 months on average). If there is enough space to fit this in as one of the 4 promo cards, then maybe that is okay. But if Yabapmatt/Aggy already have plans for the 4 promo cards this year, then I don't know if the company will have the bandwidth to do this as well.
I'm very leery of these proposals. If we consider the DAO to be the governing body then what these proposals are doing is increasing the power of said government. At the expense of stakeholders. A government that is controlled by a powerful few. How much resources do we really want to take away from the splinterlands team. They are supposed to be working on the roadmap. I thought promo cards were to be used to generate income for the company. A few promo cards aren't going to do much for a guy who only has a few thousand staked. But I could see the whales cashing in on this.
I agree with the proposal except we need a portion to keep re investing in other assets like stable coins and very heavy in the beiging to build it up so we always will have a steady income stream that grows and also do it with btc, eth, paxg, and any other quality coin with a futures contract on the ICE or regulated markets for futures where you can short them to make LP positions like WBTC/BTC market neutral and basically mine btc or really earn lp fees but might be worth looking into bc i think were at or near a bottom and if we diversify as well we can have a better shot at hitting some massive gains with less risk as well as paying regular staking rewards other than sps like say we stake xtz run a staking as a service node and distribute xtz as it comes in or own a small portion of private real estate or other things that will offset any taxable income from the dao staking sales or right away depending. Also another great thing for the DAO to do would be to do a bulk buy instead of relying on giving those profits to guilds and other organizations why not just have the DAO buy the packs on a date once commitments are received and this way the DAO can set up a more secure way of doing it and have one with a go to best deal and transparent fees from the DAO so we know exactly how things are done and where every cent goes.
Two things:
First, I like the idea someone proposed of having this be a "year-long" drop. So, if I had 10k SPS on day 1 I could get 10 cards. If, 30 days later I was able to add another 10k to my stake I could get another 10 cards. Maybe do a once-a-month snapshot for 12 months so that people who can't afford to go buy 400k SPS would have a chance to at least build their stake over time to access more cards. Would this be possible?
Second, would it just be staked SPS that is counted? Or would it also include SPS in the LPs since they are also providing value to the economy as a whole? Actually, to answer my own question, those probably couldn't count because it would be too easy to game the system by going in for the snapshot and coming out the next day.
Absolutely not!!! This proposal would set this card as a 10000$ priced card!
At least not as it stands, ofc this is the perfect proposal because SPS whales are the ones with voting power and the ones who stand to earn the most.
1k SPS = 1BCX and as a common card it needs 400 BCX to be maxed.
At current SPS prices translates into more than 25$ per BCS which means 10000$ for one maxed common card.
If you need a maxed card and don't have enough staked SPS you will need to buy each BCX you are missing.
Worse case scenario is if you need to buy all 400 BCX, even if that is not the case the vast majority will still need to buy.
Few people have 400k SPS staked and this sets a base price for each BCX.
Even at 1 BCX for 100 staked SPS would be stretch and value the card at 1000$
I hope people realize that unless the numbers are changed they will be paying more for a regular foil of this card than for a gold foil of Lux, which is just insanely stupid.
The math here isn't really correct. You're not spending $10k for one maxed common. You're spending $10k for $10k of SPS + 1 maxed common. You aren't losing the value of the SPS in this, and no one will price the card that way.
Right now, there are like 400M sps staked, so there will be lik 400k BCX of this card. Guess what else has 400k BCX? Salty Bear. Guess what salty bear's price is? $0.23. Yes, this card will cost an extra $0.1 since you need a voucher too, so I predict it'll land somewhere around $0.3 (plus or minus depending on how good it is).
i hadnt voted yet.
my question would be
idea would be: unlock tier of amount of promo to be bought based on how long staking
idea would be: voucher would get access but ultimately you would need to pay dec/sps to get a card
idea would be: once snapshot is finished, in order to participate in promo, player must agree to "pledge" 3 month lock up of sps or someehting of this sort
I honestly would almost like to see this every quarter like they are doing with the other quarter promo cards. It's clear there needs to be a massive reduction in vouchers currently in the system because they are not holding a decent price what so ever or even hardly being used they just continue to inflate more and more. I'm going to vote yes on this one because I'm curious how it turns out and if it's a benefits to the games and ecosystem. If it is we can look into doing more of them perhaps each quarter or if not then nixing it. I think this is a reasonable ask and test run.
yes but not print rate or % going to where bc nodes and sps should stay where they are in price not go up or down bc we change the voucher pool.
I like the proposal, however can we add a little addition to maximum allowable promo cards per staked sps. Like 25k staked sps can buy 60bcx, 50k staked sps can buy 220bcx, and so on. This is assuming promo card is common, then gradually change the staked sps requirement per promo card rarity. I play in gold and climbing to diamond/champ is better for me than staking 200k+ sps. But I still support this idea of rewarding sps staking. 😄
hell no il be at a million by time that happens again. Then ill get 1000 cards why would anyone get punished fuck that lol
this is a good idea in principle and I'll probably support it BUT, until the DAO is properly structured, it is more of a threat to us all, which is a cause for concern...
new cards=card price goes down
sps stakeing=sps price goes up
voucher burn=voucher price goes up
it is a trade-off between those, something like that.
at the moment, I have more money in cards than in sps and vouchers
prob ppl should really think about where there money is i still have to many cards i over did it at the beg of the year buyinh 70K worth of cards instead of slowly buying more sps then i would have been at 3-4 million with a good 50 nodes and at least a tract. Then buy the cards or use the income to buy them. That makes the most sense to me buy nodes sps use lps use income to buy cards.
All the big holders are going to say 'YES'. We all have too many vouchers..
Has to be soulbound for at least 1 year or tie it to the same period as the new soulbound rewards cards unbinding.
Overall I love this proposal as it really shows how the DAO is owned by us and can benefit us.
As mentioned by a few others, my biggest worry is about the potential for this to be a pump and dumb. Not intentionally by anyone making the proposal, but if passed (as currently looks likely), this will put upwards pressure on SPS as people want the promo. But then as soon as the snapshot is over, that upward pressure stops, and SPS comes back down. Full disclosure, if this is passed, my plan is to sell right before the snapshot when SPS is at its highest, and use the proceeds to just buy whatever BCX I need, and then buy back into SPS for even more of it when it drops back down.
I do think there needs to be more incentive to stake SPS. The APR is lower and more restrictive for staking it that for putting it in an LP. I guess it gives me the power to vote on proposals? But a few thousand isn't even a drop in the bucket. As others have mentioned, I do think this kind of proposal but with a long-term airdrop would be better. Something like "we do a snapshot every day for a year, and every time an account crosses 100k sps-stake-days it is airdropped one bcx (e.g., 100k sps staked earns 1 bcx in 1 day, 10k SPS staked earns 1 bcx in 10 days)". That would encourage long-term staking, show the benefits of the DAO, and maybe move some LP SPS to staked SPS. And I think more or less all the underlying architecture is there for the team to do that.
ill be ready to buy that dump and i will be doing similar things but not right before maybe a bit more in advnace and slower like dca selling on s few hundred k sps then buy back on the dip or if say glx is better then stick it in there if the price dips on it to get the inc in apr and buy back the sps.
Finally a proposal that I like. Any proposal that is creating cheap new cards is a thumbs up from me.
I like the idea the only thing is that say it's a common card you would need 400000 SPS staked to be able to get the card to max level, I am sure this leaves out thousands of players. I only have 12000 staked but fight in gold and above so I would have a card I couldn't use. Would we be able to trade this card on the market? What makes this card so special? What exactly are these rewards? If the reward is the card that we still pay for, it doesn't seem like a reward. I could Keep going on with questions but probably not get them all answered, so with that being said, "is it really worth it?" I guess we will find out or do I not understand what this actually means after reading it a couple times, I don't know, I could just be ranting for nothing ?....
The proposal for Minting a Promo Card seems to have plenty of support right now, so I figured I would explain why I'm downvoting this. That way, you don't get the wrong idea when you see a red thumb by my name, haha.
This proposal suffers from the same issues that DEC-B did.
At its heart, the proposals have the right intent and are trying to accomplish good things. But they make the mistake of trying to figure out the parts that shouldn't be figured out yet.
With DEC-B, a proposal was made...voted upon...added to the TO DO tasks for the team, and once the Design team and myself started working on it, we recognized that the overall objective of the proposal could be achieved much more intuitively in a different manner. But at that point, we're stuck. The specifics of the proposal were already voted on. We can't change anything.
I have some very smart UX/UI folks who have amazing solutions that would achieve the same thing, but we're forced to deliver an unnecessarily complicated mechanic, because that's how the proposal was written.
This is repeating the same situation.
In my opinion, proposals drafted by the community should not attempt to be specific on process or navigation or mechanics unless absolutely necessary. Otherwise, you're putting the team in a box and limiting our ability to produce polished game design, economics, and UX/UI.
Almost the entire Execution section of the proposal should be described as an "example". I would much rather see a proposal that outlines the goal/objective, an explanation for why it is a worthy goal to attain, and a high-level action that is being proposed to make it happen. In other words, you don't need to specify the snapshot and the BCX values or that it's even a character card. You could simply say an in-game asset. Let the team figure out what that in-game asset would be (after all, we're already flooding the game with character cards...maybe there's other options here). Let the team's UX/UI designers create the best way to calculate limits or how access to the product is attained.
Most of the conversations I see in Mav chat are so deep down the crypto rabbit hole, I don't think anyone remembers what it's like to decipher the layers of DeFi as a new user. Don't force us to create shop pages that are difficult to navigate or understand.
All you gotta do is make a proposal that says you want there to be an in-game reward that can only be purchased by those who are currently staking SPS at the time of purchase. Done. Finished. My team can work with that. And we'll make it beautiful and user-friendly.
I am hoping we can enact some sort of community proposal guidelines that factor in best-practices to accommodate UX/UI and the rest. That way, both the designers and the players will be less frustrated.
A very important statement with good reasoning I hope every SPS-Staker reads going forward.
looks like it will pass though
I changed my vote to no, after reading your comment.
I like the average of x time not a year to long but a few months or a qtr