RE: SPS Governance Proposal - Solutions to Minimize Bot Farms
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Sooo close to the mark, but still doesn't go far enough for me. Land will ensure most players currently using owned assets to bot will shut down and migrate to land so that addresses player ownership we want in the system.
How can we roll back anti-bot measures if we allow ownership botting? How can we have this and address with perma soulbound cards, ECR restrictions and Card lvl restrictions? All of which we can move to have rolled back for players once bots are gone.
Want to play 100 battles in a day in Wild and even push form it back in modern and hit that 25th chest? Get rid of bots.
Want to know what it feels like to earn a card a be able to trade it or put it on land for no extra fee again? Get rid of bots.
Want to be able to play higher leagues again without card level penalty because your a skilled player? Get rid of bots.
Want to earn decent SPS again in Wild? Get rid of bots.
Then we also address NPE and PE nerfs that cost us thousands of players previously. I dont care how badly the rental market suffers as a result of losing bots, the gains from earnings, NPE and people coming back to bot free SPL opens up much more opportunity and will far outway once we get back to fully organic growth.
For me this proposal is a good compromise and well thought out in a sense and even closest I've seen to reasonable compromise but still a no for me because it fails to think bigger picture and also places us in that confusion state about setting a hard line for outside gaming looking in.
If any of the above gets you thinking, then a NO must be the way and we push for the total bot ban everyone has been speaking of for months or even years to this point. Vote yes would see a total bot ban kicked so far down the road and make it hard to overturn, we may miss the opportunity to capitilise a bot free Splinterlands in the next WEB3 gaming boom.
I thank you, Nyte, for your time and thoughts.
I think it's no secret that I am also a strong opponent of bots.
As a dedicated gamer, botting goes against the principles of gaming for me.
And of course, I have already pondered all your thoughts countless times. That's why I struggled for some time to even tell anyone about this solution. Even after discussing it with many people and making calculations, I still wrestled with whether or not to actually publish this, because if we could really get a bot ban, I would essentially be throwing them a lifeline.
Ultimately, I had to admit that my desires are not achievable.
For example, it was always easy to say: "Yes, if land comes, people can just go there with their assets." But is this really the reality?
Do asset owners even have suitable land plots for their cards?
I think it should become clear how easily these arguments we've been throwing around can be seen as mere points to win a discussion.
Or infinite energy - a nice wish, but it would be dismantled in any serious discussion within 5 minutes.
Or do you think people would allow infinite energy that is not 100% bot secure? And we know that no bot protection in the world is 100% secure.
and your other 3 points could also be implemented with this solution!
So do we want to continue being robbed while waiting for a dream that will likely never come true?
Very smart Bronk. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
This is a good compromise and I hope people on both sides of this issue understand it. Voting "no" and holding out for better opens up the possibility that things get worse for the "no voter". Why risk that, if you think about it?
Thanks for the reply. I know where you stand on the issue.
The reality is if this proposal passes:
We most likely never get back unlimited ECR ( which limits our gameplay) due to it being potenatially exploited. - Granted I'll give you that. But unlimited ECR was a thing once and players loved it.
If you believe the other 3 options are possible with this. I'll give you that too.
My rebut to this is what if SPL wont go for these roll backs citing botting and risks of unwinding due to botting being a thing?
And now I'll challenge these questions and thoughts:
What will stop bots/owners from just migrating CP around to different accounts with ease? I could literally fire up 50 bots tomorrow for bronze 1 tomorrow via ownership. That of which I dont want to do but could theoretically if we continue to keep botting around. If CP restrictions are the only thing stopping me I can easily produce 20k CP and rotate it through the accounts knowing they will remain playable. What measure is in place that will stop me from this exploit? Will land be enough? Maybe maybe not, it's an unknown really until 2.0. For a farmer/extractor who cares not for the impacts of the change or land?
The additional of this proposal adds yet another layer on complication to an already complicated system because now not only do we have card lvl league restrictions and SPS restrictions, we would now have CP restrictions on top for those of us who may want to rent to play competitvely at higher level. Would this not be detractor for genuine players who maybe below CP threshold and rent the remining? From an outsider looking in there become now 3 things I need to ensure to play this game effectively. Shall we introduce a 4th measure if this fails to stop bot farms? And if this is considered the 'final' solution:
How will this impact things like competitive gaming to the outside world? Potential future players, investors, sponsors? I know this is more of an unknown but what we should be able to agree on is outside perception in gaming of botting on any level is not favourable.
I still believed we had the community on board with a total bot ban post land. Many whales had stated once they had a place to ultilize all their assets (land) they would be more favourable to end botting once and for all.
We may never eliminate bots totally, but a hard line stance will place all future bot extractor types with the mindset that if they get flagged/caught, they lose potentially everything.
I'm not trying to debate the merits of your proposal. I think it is a good one. I'm just thinking post land it's time we all put our money where our mouth is and go for jugular! And was not expecting this from you of all people so kudos on your willing effort to find a compromise and arguably the most decent one to date.
How easily can we move for a total bot ban after SPL has gone to the trouble of coding this all in if it turns out in furute we once again find ourselves at a bot related impass? We must rip the bandaid or we contiue to hedge our bets on what negative impacts bots will have in future. So far, bots have won every battle we have thrown at them, with the exception of banning Modern which HAS seena huge positive impact. And is why I will not budge on my stance.
Should this prove to be the winning formula, I'll happily put my hand up and say ok. But should we not see any vast imporvement to the amount of bots extractors in wild, I expect everyone to be prepared to go for the jugular.
Hey, this wouldn't be an exploit because you are allowed to earn automatically if you own the cards, and how you distribute your cards is up to you. Or do we want to punish people who own/buy more cards than they need for one account? And tomorrow, you could have 50 bronze accounts with the CP limit. Currently, you could feed over 1000 bronze and silver accounts and add unlimited accounts without ownership, which would then feed your cheap $4 accounts with victories. This massive reduction in accounts will consequently decrease rating inflation. You can see what happens without rating inflation in Modern, where someone who only fills their account with CP won't get out of Bronze 3. Players can still play on rent-only mode without ownership in modern. And I don't know if you missed it, but there was a vote a few days ago to ban bots after the land release, and that vote failed. Your text was very long, so I hope I addressed the most important points^^