Riftwatchers: Success, debrief, request, proposal, and future sale plans

avatar

What happened yesterday was nothing short of amazing. The Splinterlands team, on behalf of the DAO, launched Riftwatchers, and the community responded with sheer glee. The presale sold out in 1 minute and 39 seconds. 500,000 packs vanished in what seemed like a heartbeat. As those packs sold they took over 25M SPS off the market along with ~500,000 vouchers. In what felt like an instant the whole economy shifted beneath us, and the DAO itself stood $2,500,000 richer.

If that's all that happened it would have been enough, but there was more. A few whales started purchasing nodes at the end of the tranche and it caused a node avalanche. We saw over 1300 nodes fly off the shelf yesterday. Those nodes took over 25M SPS out of circulation. 80% was burned on the spot and 20% went to the DAO. In addition 650,000 vouchers were burned as result. This was another seismic shift for the economy.

If that's all that happened it would have been enough, but the Splinterlands community still wasn't done. 30k Chaos Legion (CL) packs were also purchased, bringing us just 45k packs away from 10M CL packs sold overall and the deployment of the Jacek card airdrop. Once the Jacek airdrop is done, we'll be in the final third of the Chaos Legion pack sale, and it won't be much longer until all of Chaos Legion is behind us.

For this incredible sale that primarily benefited the community, without any SPS going to the company from the "Riftwatchers" or node license sales, we are so grateful, excited, blessed, and ready to keep cranking out more. More code, more products, and more plans to make this company and game as awesome as possible for everyone. We'll continue to do whatever we can to work alongside of our community to bring new use cases to SPS, DEC, and Vouchers. May our shelves be stocked with endless fun and may you never, ever, have enough.

Debrief

Not everything went perfectly though. Like any popular sale there are some things that went well and some things that didn't.

The first major problem was not a technical glitch, but a UX mistake on the part of Splinterlands. When the window to purchase "Riftwatchers" packs came up on release, it involved manually inputting the amount of vouchers a player would have to spend. Many in the rush to purchase packs didn't notice or understand and clicked furiously to get the packs they came to buy. In that moment they failed to include vouchers they had intended to include in the purchase.

A second problem was that the website went immediately into the general sale following the quick presale sell out, but didn't give notice to the players that they were now buying in the general sale as opposed to the presale. Players purchased packs with the expectation that they would be getting promo cards, but unfortunately did not make the cut and were thus part of the general sale. The buyer had no way of knowing that and was not provided with notice.

A third problem is that the mad rush of the sale excluded some of our community members. Those that aren't able bodied couldn't all participate even if they were there on time and made a good honest effort. Some internet speeds vary and those with poor internet can be completely excluded.

The support team, especially @byzantinist, have worked with players to take in user feedback, calculate the financial impact of what happened, and report it to the team in very short order.

Request

Those problems aren't in a vacuum. Those problems are in a system that's currently undergoing change and we have to figure out how to transition into that change. In the past all effort was made to help make sure that anyone that could have had even the slightest miss in the experience would be taken care of even if it meant altering the rules of how the system would work.

That was much easier to do when Splinterlands (the company) was the one selling the items; however, as this was a sale on behalf of the SPS DAO it's important that any modifications are done in a way that token holders agree and consent to. Additionally, in this case the VOUCHER tokens spent in the sale are burned making them unavailable for refunds.

Our goal has been to listen to the community, and then we've tried to figure out the smallest ask we can make of the SPS holders, DAO, development team, and support team. Please keep in mind this is our first attempt of doing a sale on behalf of the DAO and there are lessons in here that would have been difficult to predict without having this first hand experience.

The following is the proposal we're putting up for public comment. We have another sale fast approaching, so we're planning on allowing 48 hours of public comments before putting up a shortened SPS stakeholder vote.

Splinterlands Riftwatchers Presale Adjustments Request/Proposal

The Riftwatchers presale was a massive success, but also had a few challenges.

  1. The UX confused some players so they missed the opportunity to spend vouchers to purchase bonus packs.
  2. The website went immediately into the general sale and some players intended to purchase presale packs and get the bonuses but accidently purchased general sale packs and are requesting refunds.
  3. Some of our community are not fully able bodied and a nearly instant sell out makes it literally impossible for them to participate.

Because of these issues Splinterlands is proposing the following:

  1. Anyone that purchased packs during the presale, but used less than the full amount of Vouchers be allowed to purchase the full amount of presale eligible packs by submitting the missing Vouchers. This will increase the total number of pre-sale packs eligible for rewards by what we estimate to be in the 2-3% range.
  2. Anyone requesting refunds will be refunded by the exact amount they purchased (in both SPS and VOUCHERs) by the Splinterlands company as opposed to the DAO. Splinterlands will then be considered the purchaser of those packs and will receive the presale bonuses like any other account, but unlike any other account we intend to use the majority of purchased packs and awarded cards as promotional givaways.
  3. We would like to increase the number of packs eligible for pre-sale rewards to allow anyone that purchased packs within the first 3 minutes (60 blocks). This would be a ~10% increase to the total pre-sale packs and resolve 60% of the transactions and 81% of the financial considerations of the presale refund requests. It would also give more time to people who physically can't complete the sale in less time.

By allowing these changes the pack purchasing community would experience:

  • a ~10% increase to the print rate of presale promotional assets (which are fortunately still not in circulation at all).
  • The majority of purchasers would be able to receive the packs they intended to purchase and who acted in good faith to do so.
  • No tokens would be removed from the DAO, or be added to circulation to cover the gap.

By allowing these changes the people on the cusp would experience:

  • A better user experience making it more likely they stay in the community and participate in further sales.
  • They are able to purchase the number of packs they intended to purchase, but were unable to purchase because of some confusion on how the sale page worked.

By allowing these changes there are those that didn't make it in that would experience:

  • Actually missing out, which is a necessary component of fear of missing out.
  • The ability to get a full refund if they purchased but missed the mark.

By allowing these changes the development and support teams will experience:

  • Building a positive experience with frustrated players.
  • A minimal amount of work necessary to make a meaningful adjustment to the player experience.
  • A retrospective and adjustments to improve the player experience in future presales.

By allowing these changes the Splinterland Company will experience:

  • A change of tokens we hold from SPS to Riftwatchers, but will not lose money in the experience of creating a sale on behalf of the DAO
  • Hopefully goodwill from the successful pack purchasers for protecting the scarcity they want.
  • Hopefully goodwill from those on the cusp who get to be included even though they technically missed the deadline.
  • Hopefully goodwill from those that were outside of the sale because they're eligible for 100% refunds.
  • Hopefully goodwill from stakeholders because we're walking the walk of using governance to determine outcomes.

If you have feedback on this proposal please leave comments below.

Future Sales

We have several sales coming in the near future. It's important that we allow everyone in this community a few minutes to make a purchase. So, going forward we're figuring out ways to ensure everyone in the community will get presale rewards provided they make a purchase within 3 minutes of the sale going live.

We will do what we can technically to ensure that there is a clear cut-off between the presale and general sale so that transactions that attempted to get in for the presale but don't make it will be rejected rather than automatically moved into the general sale without the player's knowledge or consent.

Please note that we will not be able to offer this for all sales, for example the upcoming Runi whitelist sale, as those have hard caps that cannot be increased. We will include other mechanisms for those types of sales that will attempt to make them as fair and accessible as reasonably possible.

We're currently working on plans to ensure the same thing doesn't happen when we release Tower Defense packs or any products under the Genesis League umbrella.

Overall

Please review this post, the proposal in this post, and then comment below in the next 48 hours. We'll amend the proposal based on feedback, and then put it up for an SPS proposal vote.

While not a perfect day there is a ton to be excited about. The Riftwatchers presale sold out, and we're moving through the first airdrop of Riftwatchers smoothly. We sold out of Tranche 1 Validator Node Licenses and we're nearly at the finish line for the Jacek airdrop. When Jacek hits we'll be down to the final 33% of Chaos Legion. Tower Defense and Runi sales are getting prepped and there's so much going on as well for Genesis League and getting land into place. Thank you to everyone that participated in the Riftwatchers sale. We'll try to take this experience into account for future sales, and please share your feedback below and please share your praise across friends, family, and social networks.

Blessings of Peace, Prosperity, and Freedom,

Matt and Aggroed


Stay tuned for more updates from the Splinterlands!

Website | Blog | Discord | Telegram | Shop

NOTE: All rewards from this post will be burned.



0
0
0.000
171 comments
avatar

Thanks @splinterlands and @aggroed for considering this proposal. Although I was only able to get 3 packs I was one who missed the cutoff by just a few blocks (5 to be exact) this shows that the community and players are being heard and supported. Just wanted to thank you here.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I think the team did an outstanding job of solving the issues that came up. Its awesome to see you take action so quickly after carefully thinking through the issues the community raised.

What a great day in more ways than one!

0
0
0.000
avatar

Totally agree, good job, even i made it within the window I am happy the community benefits

0
0
0.000
avatar

Thank you. This is exactly what was needed to restore the faith.

0
0
0.000
avatar

This is a fantastic follow up for the correction of literally the only thing that wasn't a legendary result of the Rift Watchers pre sale. The reaction instantly to those that felt slighted by missing out (myself included) is a superb move if the community can come to a consensus.

I think as many can be included in good faith as mentioned above to be included in the presale perks is very important. Not just because it's in my self interest but it's in the interest of the community as a whole. When "one of us in good faith feels a bit wronged, we all feel wronged." I would want everyone to walk away from this getting everything they had the resources to purchase in hand.

Some of the proposed fixes seem very reasonable. Maybe there can be a minimum amount set going forward in some of these pre sales with additional perks, and maximum amount of time that is reasonable for the team and the community both--rather than having the quickest fingers or missing out on perks that have some big consequences if you do miss out.

Again it was a historic day for the game in a shockingly positive and a momentum builder that surprised even the most bullish for this sale. Scary to think this is just the start of crazy September in the splinterverse.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I think points 1 and 2 are perfect but point 3 should be taken out. Those that missed the cutoff for whatever reason should not be allowed to inflate the print of promo cards. This will negatively affect the value of the promo cards that those who did make the cutoff will get. It is perfectly fair to offer a refund, but to offer to inflate the supply of the promo card, no no no please no. FOMO is a thing because MISSING OUT is a thing. There was ample warning and if you couldn't buy in the first 2 seconds because you didn't care enough to: ensure stable internet connection, sufficient funds, literally everything that I've been prepping DAYS for, sorry, you don't just "deserve" to be included. That's my 2 cents. YES to 1 and 2, NO to point 3.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I see your points and on your third there's a bit of nuance. Those of us that did not get in spent a great deal of time, myself included. I watched the ticker tick down. I had issues with manually typing in the bonus packs and yes that is my fault. But at the same time at the "risk" of printing slightly more of the perks involved in the presale versus telling people that spent that amount of resources and miss by a few seconds that is infuriating. We as a game are always talking about RETENTION and RECRUITMENT of players. This is a giant mistake and sends people into some real resentment they don't get over towards the game--it's happened many times before whether justified or not. Also there are some structural issues in game that can be improved and if there is a bit of a systemic problem the game can make it much better and prevent such a thing happen going forward. Perhaps vouchers can be used to "reserve or guarantee resources or positions in such things going forward." There are a lot of great answers and we can improve or sit on our hands and really piss off a lot of people that had the resources and every good faith intention to buy a lot of these packs when SPS is at a very low relative price, even with the pump up over a little over 8 cents just before the sale started. This is meant to build hype and goodwill, not gotcha moments and a tournament of the lucky and most online efficient.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

I agree and sympathize with your situation, but I feel like that's on the game dev's not accounting for literally the same scenario that occurred for Chaos Legion presale not 10 months ago. If they didn't account for this contingency I don't think its fair to alter the print rate of a card. If people get upset and leave that sucks and hurts me and my assets as well, but on principle, I feel like that game needs to suffer the consequences for what happened, not the people who did successfully purchase. So if the game wants to say that instead of printing more, they will allow people to buy general sale packs and give up the promo cards that they, the team, received, I would be ok with that.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Thank you for your witness vote!
Have a !BEER on me!
To Opt-Out of my witness beer program just comment STOP below

0
0
0.000
avatar

I've been buying packs since 03/2020. When did we decide we were switching over to Black Friday Walmart shopping riot logic?

0
0
0.000
avatar

I think this is a reasonable response for this particular situation, but I am worried about expectations and setting as a precedent. I was fortunate enough to get some packs before the cutoff, but I can certainly understand the frustration experienced by those who thought they were getting it, and am fully in agreement with the spirit of #2 and #3 as a remedy for this particular pre-sale.

Personally I don't have as much sympathy for the first proposal point - the use of vouchers looked to me very similar to the voucher setup that has been on the Chaos Legion page for months, so I'm not sure how it was so confusing. However at 2-3% impact, it's not a make-or-break in my view, although wonder what precedent it sets.

I worry though a 3 minute window on future presales may pose some problems in the future if demand far outstrips the desired presale supply. For instance, we saw how quickly the large investors mobilized on nodes. If presale is targetted at 500,000, and this sells out in first 15 seconds, it seems plausible that deep pocketed investors could quickly assess, and perhaps buy much more than intended. How upset would this community be if the entire Riftwatcher edition was purchased in a 3 minute presale window? Diluting promos and further limiting accessibility for anyone that couldn't be at a computer for those 3 minutes.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Out of the 3 proposals, 1 probably has the highest claim. You were entitled to a bonus but because of a UX mix up you are suggesting players don't get it? they aren't getting something they weren't entitled to, providing they use the vouchers required they should get the bonus packs they were due. I am surprised this is even on the proposal to be honest because @aggroed said on the event stream that Splinterlands would honour the bonus packs. CL presale DIDN'T require vouchers for bonus packs, it was only after the presale that they became a requirement, this I think contributed to many not understanding they explicitly were required to manually enter a voucher figure for bonus packs.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I'll respectfully disagree. I'm not really sympathetic to complaints about the UX pre-filling or comparison to CL presale... it was pretty clear from the beginning that this sale was new and different - vouchers needed for the entire sale, new currency, all proceeds to DAO. If someone gets a lagging page refresh, I'd argue that's more of a UX problem than a voucher needing to be entered manually and not being entered?

It's one thing to honour the bonus packs and give them at cost of a voucher instead of $5 / voucher, but the prop as stated would count all of these as "pre-sale" packs and correspondingly give pre-sale bonuses. I spent the time to plan, read, calculate and double-check my buy before clicking submit - at the risk of not getting in before the cutoff. I have less sympathy for people that clicked buy without reviewing, than I do for people that clicked buy presale but actually bought non-presale.

With that said, I'll respect the community vote. My preference though is these are separate votes.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I only pointed out the CL comparison because you cited it initially but wasn't aware if you knew that it changed from presale to general sale. That vouchers was required is not the issue that was pretty clear, it was the way it worked in practice, enough made the mistake for @aggroed to state on stream that Splinterlands would honour the bonus packs. Actually watched a few players on stream and it is obvious the UX didn't work well with regard to bonus packs. I just think the proposal should only be for extending the presale time, since the vouchers and refunds for packs bought after presale were already verbally agreed to and other streamers have repeated this in their streams. Also support tickets have been issued with regards to vouchers and refunds on that basis.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification. I wasn't around at the time of CL Presale so it's good background. Thanks for a good respectful dialogue on what can be a divisive issue!

!pizza

0
0
0.000
avatar

I have been fortunate to catch each new sale since I started my Splinterlands journey back in August 2021 so I am posting this not out of personal preference but from standpoint of what I think would be a fair approach for all (I know people that have missed out on various sales).

I fully appreciate what you are trying to achieve and while the 3min window will help many, I think the approach can be improved further to truly give everyone who wants to take part in the presale the opportunity to do so.

The best approach would be to give people the option to "pre-load" their funds/vouchers in say the 24 hours immediately prior to the presale going live and these purchases would instantly complete when the sale starts, without the buyer needing to be around. This is however a more technically complex solution when perhaps a simple approach would suffice...

Just extend the 3 min window to 12 or 24 hours - the issue with 3mins is that it will likely fall during the night for some people and could easily happen while someone is at a key appointment that cannot be moved (for example; a funeral, a doctors app or a key meeting at work). Giving people a larger window of time like this would all that can be reasonably be expected of you?

I know from a sales perspective selling out in 2mins looks good but even with the larger window you can still say you have sold out within the same timeframe just that you honour buys with presale bonuses for a longer duration (I can't really see what the downside of an extended window is).

Thanks for taking the time to read.

Dark.Star

0
0
0.000
avatar

I don't believe you need to change anything. The sale was fast and furious , i have experienced many and lost out a lot. Its part of the game. Just because a few of the richer community didn't get their dopamine hit shouldn't mean SPL should comprise rarity of the promo card. There were many small buys during the pre sale which i believe is great for the less wealthy community.
If these change were to be implemented i think it would affect the on boarding of new players

0
0
0.000
avatar

i don't know about any of this. It all seems like an emotional response by the company to an emotional response to people who missed the sale. If you allow 3 minutes, then what about the people on the bubble of the 3 minute mark? You not going to satisfy everyone with this. I think it is what it is. The time, process was all clearly known up front. Its a first-come first-serve type of sale/event.

Sure, devs can make the front end a better experience. Like when the counter counted down to zero, it do not refresh the page, had to do it manually, a couple of times. Had to put vouchers in manually, which you don't have to do on the CL packs.

Other then some UI stuff, I don't think anything went wrong. these things go fast, everyone in crypto knows this.

on the flip side of all this, people bought into the presale in good faith with respect to the proposed supply of the promo card. packs are much much cheaper on the aftermarket then buying in game, so now, you are proposing reducing the value of the promo card with additional inflation to appease those who are basically just sad that they didn't get it. however, those who did get it, made a financial investment based on the parameters proposed up front. Now, to change those parameters, after the fact, would not be fair to those people.

If SPL wants to give money back to people because they feel bad for the people who feel sad, that is fine. But, do what you like, but don't change the economy of the promo card because of it.

0
0
0.000
avatar

If it was only my loss of value in question (due to the increase in circulation) I would vote yes to all 3 points.
However, I am extremely uncomfortable voting away other peoples' value. I hate it when people vote to raise taxes on me, so on principle I will have to vote down the 1st and 3rd points even though personally I am fine with them. 😢

I cannot in good conscience participate in an involuntary redistribution of wealth.
I would rather we set up a fund for people to donate any extra promo cards that they feel like donating to be divided equally among the people who missed out.
This is true compassion and caring, as opposed to giving away other peoples' wealth.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I will be supporting this proposal as it is written.

10% inflation with a large chunk of that going to splinterlands which will kept mostly off the market will have minimal impact on anybody. And if it that is too much to bear, they can get full refunds.

0
0
0.000
avatar

In this particular run, the 10% is definitely bearable, but in the future, the 3 minute cutoff might not be a good solution, as it could dramatically inflate the print run.

On the fence about it, even though I agree with it in this case.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Agreed, this is just a one-time fix. Going forward there should be very clear expectations.

0
0
0.000
avatar

How to mention about that this is the only one-time fix
😊 to the devs quite more?

Also I want to add that this can be perceived for this situation as a "bugs bounty". :3

0
0
0.000
avatar

To add, going forward my suggestions would be:

Create an alert between presale and general sale. Confirm that I want to buy even though I missed the cutoff.

Voucher bonuses at maximum levels should be part of the total purchase by default and require manual entry to remove.

0
0
0.000
avatar

This is the minimum that should be done.
I still like the FOMO effect though - not everyone does.

0
0
0.000
avatar

i have read through all the comments this morning and Ive found 2 responses that I felt served head and heart, logic and love. @dagger212 and @cherute below offer up some great responses to the proposal and for future sales mechanism. I found myself feeling very torn between all of these polarised reactions but its wonderful that we have such excellent thinkers with such passion, compassion and investment nouse in this community which gives me faith that as a DAO we can thrive and use our hive mind to navigate the best way forward when these issues are encountered.
peace AND prosperity, love AND abundance, sovereignty AND community

0
0
0.000
avatar

Changing what I purchased after the fact in any way is unacceptable.

0
0
0.000
avatar

This is a way to look at it, but then the question is, what has changed with what you have purchased? If you bought 1000 packs, you still have 1000 packs.

0
0
0.000
avatar

No - I bought X packs, AND X/Y %% of the total supply of the promo card.

If the Y changes as proposed, what I bought has changed.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Yes, I understand that, but it is also the "not in your wallet, not yours" kind of thing. You have the packs - the promo card is yet to be yours.

I completely understand your view too though - just raising the question.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Correct - the packs still hold some % of the value I was purchasing.

While I would potentially consider compensation to those in the 500k for the increased liquidity vs what was promised in rewards cards...

The MUCH better, and hard to argue against solution is:

DAO uses that SPS in the fund to purchase promo cards in the secondary market. Then do whatever the DAO wants with those cards...

To anyone that repeats "10% dilution is acceptable":

  1. It's really more like 12.5% dilution all told.
  2. Go with 10% - anyone making this statement can send me 9.9% of everything in their wallet..after all 10% dilution is "acceptable".
0
0
0.000
avatar

But it is the dilution on a single card, not the entire set. The packs are hopefully the majority of the value held, so the dilution is on that card.

If the packs are worth 10,000 and the first drop is worth 1000, the packs are still worth 10,000, but the 1000 = 900. So, in reality, the 10% loss on total holdings is closer to 1%.

0
0
0.000
avatar

also agreed - I'm not here arguing for a 10% discount on the purchase in exchange for being happy about the promo print increase by any means.

I'm just making it clear that IMO - changing a product after the fact - is just wrong. Any change, no matter how minor.

I think the only honest way to give anyone promo card access not within the 500k, is for the DAO to purchase those cards from the market after the fact.

0
0
0.000
avatar

They won't be kept off the market. In fact, they will hurt the market more if they are giveaways. Most of the people that tend to enter the giveaways would sell the assets. I don't blame them at all if they get something worth a lot and sell it but they do it often. I can't support printing more promo cards.

I can support refunds

0
0
0.000
avatar

10% inflation with a large chunk of that going to splinterlands which will kept mostly off the market

What gave you the crazy idea that SPL will be getting any of these additional promo cards? They won't be, and they won't keep them off the market....

0
0
0.000
avatar
  1. yes
  2. yes
  3. on the fence.

In regards to 3, what would happen if the 500K packs in presale were open to 3 minutes in a future release, and then 2M packs sell in that 3 minutes? While that is unlikely right at this moment and could be a fix in this specific example, it could cause problems down the line, where the presale promo card that would have had a run of 15,000, would then have a run of 60,000. In this case, it would be a 10% bump of ~1500 - but 4x'ing it makes the card far less valuable.

I don't have a solution for this, but I am leaning toward a hard cut off with all in the final block eligible.

However, since I like to go out on a limb...

How about a "preset" function for purchase packs, so the buy amounts can be set up prior to go live (perhaps in the last 10 minutes or something to stop automation if required), so then all that needs to be done is to click "buy" and it runs?

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

I think this is how I will vote if we have 3 proposals to mull over - falling to a no on number 3, or abstaining.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

I honestly had no idea if the presale would sell out in minutes or weeks, I had nothing to gauge the demand whatsoever, and when it sold out in a minute I did feel bad for people in other timezones that just had no opportunity to make this purchase.

I appreciate the Splinterlands company thinking of ways to work through the issues of this amazing presale for those affected, and as a community member I'll be more than happy to vote positively for the 3 changes that would help out other community members get what they had organised resources to purchase.

I personally have no concern over the 10% increase in presale packs - the benefits far outweigh the slight reduction in rarity to me.

0
0
0.000
avatar

there is no benefits, the people that get pulled into the bubble will be happy, then the people on the outside of the new bubble will not be happy. The rules and terms of the sale were all published in advance. So, there is no need to change anything in this one. Sure, feedback can be garnished to feed how the next one goes...to solve the timezone, have x% of packs release every 2 hours or something, then there is presale for every time zone.

0
0
0.000
avatar

people in other timezones that just had no opportunity to make this purchase.

This is an utterly ridiculous claim. Humans have proven for centuries they are capable of being awake and alert at whatever hour of the day is important enough for them to do so.

I made sacrifices to make the sale - others did not. There is not an hour of the day that I would not have been able to sacrifice and be present. Same is true for everyone in general.

0
0
0.000
avatar

So now I am not so sure I bought packs in the pre-sale... 😂

I really like the dedication of the team and the community during these challenges.
For me the voting system is a perfect solution for these moments.

0
0
0.000
avatar

After the counter reached zero and the option to buy appeared, there were already 127 packs sold. I hit buy instantly, after doing so I was launched to the open packs page, went back to the buy page and 522k packs had been sold. That was extremely fast, so I'm not sure if my purchased packs go into the presale, I hope so.

As for the proposal, I think the three minutes is too short, why not extend it to the first 600k packs purchased or 700k, maybe that way it can be solved for all those who are asking for a refund or are dissatisfied.

On my part there is only uncertainty, but if it turns out that my packs are not eligible for the promotional card I will be very disappointed.

Regards and thanks for the considerations.


Spanish: Luego que el contador llegó a cero y apareció la opción de comprar ya habían 127 packs vendidos. Le dí a comprar instantáneamente, luego de hacerlo fui lanzado a la página de abrir los packs, volví de nuevo a la la página de compra y se habían vendido 522k packs. Eso fue extremadamente rápido, así que no estoy seguro si mis packs comprados entran en la preventa, espero que sí.

En cuanto a la propuesta, pienso que los tres minutos es poco tiempo, porque no alargarla a los primeros 600k packs comprados o 700k, quizás de esa forma se puede solventar para todos aquellos que están pidiendo una devolución o están insatisfechos.

De mi parte solo queda incertidumbre, pero si resulta que mis packs no son elegibles para optar por la carta promocional estaré muy decepcionado.

Saludos y gracias por las consideraciones

0
0
0.000
avatar

I am one of those affected and for this time the three solutions seem good to me. But for future sales, the only thing I see as necessary would be a tutorial on how the sale would work so that people could be ready un the real sale. For the rest, the first come first serve system seems to me to be the right one since by notifying interested people with time, it can be organized. Of course, the use of bots tonbuy is forbided.

Sorry for my level of English.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Splinterlands can donate to the players, but we can't donate as individuals? Do we have to vote everyone's wealth away together? Let the community donate that are willing, and let the people who received it following the guidelines we all experienced keep it if they so want. Let's see this as a learning experience, donate what we are willing, and start discussing the solution to the next sale. Thank you for your consideration!!

0
0
0.000
avatar

Guys, keep in mind that not everyone can sit at the computer 24/7 and wait for the sale.

I was on the road at the time of launch and sales.

3 minutes to buy is not serious for such expenses.

Please make at least 1 hour for this action in order to do all this without nerves and haste.

0
0
0.000
avatar

if it wasn't worth taking off work for - then you didn't want it as bad as others and you don't get the limited supply...that is how limited supply works. Show up when available, or miss out.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Yes to all points. 1 Minute and 39 seconds was just crazy and now proves we will need a better system going forward. 3 minute window is a very reasonable solution and also allowing refunds is fine. Voucher use also agree with and I agree with @nealmcspadden they should have been included automatically providing you had the vouchers in hand to pay for the bonus packs.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I understand what the splinterlands team is trying to due but I do worry about the precedence it sets.

I know there are some not able and live where they don't have internet so to that I can't speak about as I don't experience this and I'm glad SL is taking this into account but I worry about if this is the case for people or people making excuse hoping SL will help them.

The team set exception ahead of time it would only be the first 500. People can say I didn't expect it to sell out in a minute but if you wanted you needed to be ready.

I waited for SPS to get as high as it would before RW. I purchased a node 15 - 30 second before the presale which took some time. I click on the rift gems (which may be my saving grace cause I heard people on the screen where it did refresh), sat and calculated how many packs I could buy with my remaining SPS and enter my bonus packs.

I entered my bonus packs this is the way it was currently working on the site and has been since I joined in Feb with CL packs so I'm not sure why this has to be refunded. I watch someone on stream buy packs without entering and person he was on stream with said uh did you enter the bonus packs. The response was oh no I didn't.

I'm not sure how I will vote on this I feel like voting yes from the emotional side but from an overall logistic side I think it should be a no.

0
0
0.000
avatar

For those with slow internet or disabilities, these are known in advance. Group buys exist for people in these scenarios. I participated in a group buy (thanks, Hawks21!) and am pleased with the outcome.

Agreed that the UX was pretty poor for those that weren't notified that they missed the window. Those people should be made whole with refunds, and that shouldn't impact those that successfully made the cut. Yes, give people the opportunity to submit vouchers, that shows you are taking care of the customer and it doesn't hurt the community. Kudos!

A proposal with multiple options creates a challenge where the situation is quite nuanced with only a binary decision. I bet that many people would vote Yes for parts of the proposal and vote No for another. Increasing supply does not seem like a fair solution because it negatively impacts the 90%+ of those who got in successfully and can problem solve.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I think the group buy is a good option here too - I think there should always be a fair chance of missing out, as it is part of the gamification of a presale.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I will be supporting this proposal as it is written.

I would like to see consideration be given moving forward to a sign up list or a raffle to place everyone on an even playing field vs whoever has the fastest internet, hands, or bot for purchasing. It's not nearly as fun from a marketing perspective, but it's definetly more fair.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

What do you mean the sps went to the dao. their private property?
I thought we all vote on what should happen to them.

and i am against more people becoming eligible for the promo card as intended!!

especially 3 minutes a bit exaggerated, who should please have such a blatant delay? who has not made it in the first minute, has slept through it and is himself to blame!

0
0
0.000
avatar

I 100% agree with this. This proposal to increase the number of presales undermines those of us who prepared in advance.

We all knew that vouchers needed to be entered as it is an optional bonus.

Why should the majority that did it right have to suffer and lose the value of the promised items to accommodate the people who made mistakes?

I'm pretty sure it should not have taken 1 minute to type up 3 or 4 digits into that box.

3 mins to buy? Most of those weren't even interested in buying at all and just decided on the spot.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I wont be supporting this, proper planning prevents piss poor production. If you want to give them a refund or make it up to the 1/6th of the people who missed the promo cut off with CL packs or something else, thats fine, but the promo should stay at the intended supply.

Next time only sell however many packs are in the presale, this will allow them to sell for a premium on secondary markets and also be more definitive

0
0
0.000
avatar

Personally I like the proposal as written. I got most of what I intended in time, but think this would show excellent goodwill towards everyone who did actually participate, which is vital for maintaining a strong community and KEEPING new community members. Even those who this does not affect directly will see how the company operates, which I consider to be above and beyond compared to any other project/game company out there. I personally experienced a UI bug in my second purchase where the voucher entry box was 'stacked' behind the other boxes and unaccessible (I was actively looking for it during the second purchase).

I might also recommend a buy limit cap for events like this, as has been done before with great success (ie waka, license pre-sale, both of which limited the purchase to one item per click/transaction). Allowing the 'max level' per transaction/click in a case like this would be ideal imo... ie in this case the 'top level' was 2K packs, so allowing only up to 2K packs per transaction would be an excellent way to meter such a sale and offer more opportunity to more participants.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Amazing initiative!

Proposal #1) Vote is no.

Explanation : During the pre-sale, there is a prompt that clearly states how many bonus packs you are entitled to. All you needed to do is copy the number that is written. While it is annoying that someone could have gotten more pre-sale packs through the bonus, these people still got pre-sale packs. The bonus packs offer starts at 100 packs, which means these players already snagged 2 promo cards guaranteed. There are people who missed it by a few minutes, and got none.

Proposal #2) Vote is yes.

If someone had started the purchase flow in the pre-sale with the intention of buying a pre-sale pack, then it is unethical to sell them a non-presale pack. I think it is very honourable for the Splinterlands company to offer the refund on behalf of the DAO.

Proposal #3) Vote is no

Anyone who managed to buy in the pre-sale showed on time, and completed the the pre-sale within the first 500K packs. We all have places to be in life. For future sales, perhaps a new pre-sale mechanism can be found that would provide a fair and level playing ground for all players, regardless of their situation.

If someone truly believes in this community, then there will be more sales, and more events to be a part of. Missing out is never fun, but that doesn't mean the world is over.

Perhaps the DAO can vote for approved users that buy on behalf of any other player that fears they will miss out of the pre-sale. That way if you know you won't be home, or you know you can't complete a sale fast enough, you can safely delegate your buying to someone who can try. There is no guarantee that person will get the pre-sale packs either. That is just the way of the game!

0
0
0.000
avatar

All you needed to do is copy the number that is written

This is true, but in the case of the 4000 odd CL packs I have bought in batches, this is not how the UI has worked.

I've probsbly made at least 15 CL batch purchases, and so was completely unprepared for this new, regressive approach.

If you've got the vouchers, I don't see why you wouldn't want those bonus packs. And so inkeeping with the UI CURRENTLY IN PLACE FOR CL PACKS, that box should really have been autofilled.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

Yes, I agree that the UI was not good, and I have no doubt that those players that didn't add their vouchers for bonus packs would obviously have wanted them. In fact, the only reason I got my bonus packs, is because I declined the confirmation, because my bonus packs didn't appear in the confirmation. In this aspect, the UI was identical to the Chaos Legion pre-sale. After declining the transaction, I saw that the bonus pack window had fully appeared, I filled it in, and completed the transaction, meaning I risked the possibility of missing out on the pre-sale entirely. Luckily that wasn't the case for me, but with 96 seconds only, there isn't a lot of time to lose.

That being said, the 500K per-sale packs are all gone now, and getting a piece of those 500K packs was the reason we all showed up. I don't support expanding that amount. Had you succeeded in putting the vouchers, that would have pushed another player out of the 500K. Or perhaps not taking the extra few seconds to fill in your vouchers is the reason why you managed to get in the 500K packs in the first place.

I absolutely support allowing those who missed out on the bonus packs to use the vouchers to get more packs, but I think they should be general sale packs.

If you noticed, the TowerDefense pre-sale was also a completely different UI then compared to the RiftWatchers, with some similarities. You first had to press 'buy now', with no option of scrolling down, and then then put in your vouchers and payment method.

Cheers!

0
0
0.000
avatar

I absolutely support allowing those who missed out on the bonus packs to use the vouchers to get more packs, but I think they should be general sale packs.

This seems fair to me.

Tower Defense I've not got involved with, but as a completely different game I would have no preconceptions of how things would work.

Anyway, let's see how things pan out, I'm looking forward to battling with some new cards :)

0
0
0.000
avatar

I would like to see the Sale page presented and explained in advance. This would eliminate a major source of error. In the rush, it is stressful when you want to act quickly, but sees the page for the first time in front of him and also does not want to make mistakes when buying. So time passes unnecessarily or mistakes can happen (like here with the vouchers).
If the sale page with its rules (such as that all vouchers including bonus packs are automatically set) is known and everyone knows how and where to click when the page opens, then everyone who has prepared and really wants to buy immediately can make his purchase within a minute at the latest.
Then there should be a clear cut between Pre Sale and General Sale.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I think the failure here was that there wasn't any system to pre purchase the pre sale so that it would be an orderly process. The pre sale started 4am here for me, and by the time I woke up all gone. I don't mind so much for me personally but thinking more broader.

Bring back the raffle system or something else that allows everyone from all tomezones a fair chance. Surely a fair chance for all no matter where you live is reasonable.

Also those less fortunate to have slower internet get a disadvantage too. Again Surely that's not the intent that the disadvantaged in the world get a further disadvantage just widening the inequality. Let's think about these things in the future please.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Up voting myself purely to get the comment up the top so hopefully no down vote police are attracted to this. I will donate the proceeds to a worthy cause

0
0
0.000
avatar

the team cannot do raffles as that falls under US gambling law.

0
0
0.000
avatar

But they did a raffle for land sale were they not in the US then?

0
0
0.000
avatar

That was before they knew what they were doing. Lawyers have since told them no.

0
0
0.000
avatar

4am for me too in Aus, stayed up all night and a mate came around. It took planning but you're in a global system. There is no "fair" time zone.

0
0
0.000
avatar

That's the point there is no fair time zone, so have a raffle system or something like it, so it's random chance not based on your nationality or internet speed.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Yes to 1 and 2. For 3, I'm fine with either outcome. Just maybe on the next pre sale event. A pre filled order of quantity and just wait for the "OK" button to be clickable after the countdown timer runs out.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Yes to all points. It was a good way to learn some lessons.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I believe I'm someone that falls in that 3 min window (I'll have to check which block is the 3 min cut off point), and for those who feel this is unfair if it were to be included in the proposal and pass, let me describe what happened to me.

I was ready right at the moment the countdown finished to purchase the bulk packs with 15% bonus. Realizing I could move a bit more SPS from HE to my SL account to better utilize the 15% bonus on a few dozen more packs, I went to another window to make this transfer, then I came back and processed my purchase.

At no point before I switched tabs, or after I came back did I see an active countdown of packs being sold that qualified for the promo. There was a tally, but it wasn't updating live from what I could see, as it was stuck on something like 125 packs sold which was there from right when the page popped up after the countdown. It only updated to over 500K packs sold after I purchased. I had no idea whether I had qualified for the promo or not until I looked up the block cutoff of block ******464 that was posted around.

Had I seen how fast they were moving I would have just done the 2 clicks of "500 packs + purchase" and not fussed around trying to make a larger purchase, and I'd have made it in. Or, had I seen that I missed the 500K promo pack cut off, I also just wouldn't have purchased any, and I'd probably instead bought a node with those funds... which I have obviously missed tranch 1 of now as my purchase funds are locked up until all of this is figured out.

Another thing that wasn't available which I hope the community might agree warrants allowing rewards up to 3 min in this case, is it would make sense for the sales window and calculator for total sps and vouchers required to be able to be filled out, so that at the right moment it's just a single click that's required. As alluded to in the post this would streamline it for everyone (abled and less abled) no matter how many packs they want to purchase, without confusion around the vouchers, and having enough funds immediately available.

Having been in previous Splinterlands promo releases, they've never gone this fast, so it wasn't expected which I hope adds to everyone's understanding of other people's frustration with what happened. If anyone here has ever been a part of the frenzied and often glitchy popular NFT releases you can experience on platforms like WAX, I'm sure you'd agree it would also be great if future Splinterlands releases DIDN'T end up going in that direction when possible, but since it did happen, hopefully you can understand how some of us by error, simple misunderstanding, etc, missed this release, and how we'd be grateful for the rewards to be extended to a 3 min window as proposed.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I didn't partacipate the presale, i'm totally focused on chasing a node licence. Nonetheless, i'm very interested on this proposal and really pleased that our devs shows this unique level of care for the community. Thank you and congrats for the amazing day.

My 2 cents here:
Prop 1 and 2 are so reasonable that could become standard to solve this kind of issues on the whole cripto space.
Proposal 3 distress me, expecially if applied in future sales, but i could pass it with some additional info: how many transactions can fit in 60 blocks? i couldn't find an answer to that. If the answer is somewhat like "a reasonable number, close to the supply we anticipate for X and Y" i would totally pass the proposal. If not i'd prefer to encourage and support group buys

That's it, love u all!

0
0
0.000
avatar

First of all thanks for making this post so we can comment on the how the presale worked.

For this time I would most likely support the proposal, in order to keep satisfaction and retention with as many community members as possible. But I actually do see some problems with the proposal.

  1. As you wrote "Many in the rush to purchase packs did not notice or understand and clicked furiously to get the packs they came to buy." I myself, see that as their own fault, because they did not recheck what they were buying. Therefore taking the risk of making mistakes but being faster than other people, that might have rechecked it and were too late to buy in the presale. So in a way if point 1 passes and point 3 is not passed, I wont see it to be as fair towards the players that were too late. In my opinion actually both players of 1 and 3 made mistakes (1. they didn't check it properly and 3. They were too late)

  2. I agree

  3. As other people already stated a 3 minute period sounds fine for this time. However I would actually say that a 2 minute period would feel better. Also for future sales. I would say 2 minutes sounds better, but it still might cause a x4 more intended promocard minting.
    Is it not possible to make it something like a 2 minute period or a 5% margin of presale packs (instead of the now 10%) whichever comes first.

I myself was lucky this time because I was in the last block. However If I missed it with just a few blocks I would be pissed as well, but if missed out with 1minute and 21seconds, I would actually kick myself for being late, instead of blaming the company/presale.

What might also be possible for future pre-sales is do like IPOs of companies where they have a sign-up period where the buyers put in how many stocks/packs they would like to buy. And at presale everyone would get the amount they wanted or when there is too much interest and its oversold, they would only get a portion of it for the presale while the rest goes into general sale. It might cause problems for instance with promocards, because there is a big chance everybody might not get enough packs to get a promo but those are things for you guys to find solutions for :D
It's at least something to think about!

0
0
0.000
avatar

I don't agree with this at all. I also think that the post has a big failure. It doesn't have a part going over how this hurts the people that did right. Many of us put in our orders the right way. We made sure to be there at the exact time. Even invest in better internet because of drops like these. It should at least be noted that now the Rarity of the Promo card is getting a hit so that value is getting a hit. You need to provide how many more cards and titles are going out. We should know how much extra supply is coming out if we approve this.

Also in general I don't like this idea. What is the point of having a promo card and limited presale if you don't make people go to the market if they miss out and instead alter the rules to allow them to get them items?

I can support refunds for the people that bought packs after the cut off. The site should have stopped the sale at least for a little bit.

0
0
0.000
avatar

100% in line with what I think about the issue...

There needs to be a clear break between presale and general, that woudl save what I see to be a major issue.

The rest is up to the purchaser and it is their own personal responsibility to take part in a competitive presale.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I don’t like the idea either.

I was there right at the point of sale, I was trying to figure out what to do and boom general sale, I bought the general sale and congratulated those that could get in the presale earlier. And what everyone should do.

If people are complaining about the UI and lack of instructions before hand, cool, I get that, it’s subject to improvement.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

Could you include how many extra promo cards will be minted in the prop. so people know exactly what the numbers are? Thanks HUGE success BTW in a down stock and crypto market! VERY IMPRESSIVE!

0
0
0.000
avatar

It's RNG so you don't know exactly. Hence the ~10% number. That's as accurate as they can be.
They also don't know how many claims there will be. Some people who bought with and forgot to use vouchers might not notice this and might not submit a ticket ever (unlikely but possible). So pinning the exact # is pretty much impossible.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

Presale should be 1st million packs.😁

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

While I didn't participate in the presale I will say that the changes you purpose seem fair to me.

Future Sales

I suspect three minutes would still leave allot of people scrambling and stressing on if they can make the cut. If it was me I would extend that to upwards of 15 minutes (ex. 500K Packs or 15 minutes which ever last the longest). If someone can't make it within 15 minutes, it wasn't meant to be. Imagine being a newbie getting ready to spend your desired amount and join all the fomo and excitement that is Splinterlands to click the purchase button 3 minutes + .01 seconds into a presale only to find out you didn't make it. Frustration at its peak right there.

0
0
0.000
avatar

it is a nogo, the buyers buy something limited, and to increase the number after the fact is cheating!
if e.g. limited shoes are sold, then in the end also not more are produced than were specified just because someone came too late!

the fact that we are discussing this after the fact alone is pretty sad, the rules were set up beforehand, finished!

0
0
0.000
avatar

see,
i live in the philippines
presale was 2AM my time. had to put an alarm just to not miss out.
there's a fiber cut in my area so i used my mobile data as hotspot for my laptop to connect to splinterlands.
i have to manually input 870 and 130 in those boxes just to make sure i get my 1K pack.

all downside is on my part but I WANT TO GET A GF OC BADLY and luckily,i made it - block 67,936,447
if in case i didn't make it, i won't complain cause that's the rule.
it is what it is guys, why do we need to complicate all these?

we all did our best to participate in the pre-sale but it is really the first 500K packs buyers win.
so, i will really vote against this.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I agree with all the proposals for this sale, but I think there will always be an issue here because this project is both a game and an investment.
I like what you have as a fix in the short term, but it only addresses supply currently. I would recommend considering options to address demand as well if you are not already.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

There should be a break between presale and general sale, 5-15 minute break with "presale sold out general sale starts in 5-15 minutes" page displayed in the period after presale.

That would fix the issue for people purchasing outside of presale but thinking they qualified.

The other issues are everywhere in every competitive sales. It is the quick and the dead and unless some version of secured whitelisting is implemented then it's not correct to "nerf the world".

Changing numbers after the fact is not correct either, even in good faith. It doesn't inspire confidence that the team sticks to it's word in the face of outside pressure.

0
0
0.000
avatar

My thought is
1 ) Yes you should let them use the vouchers to get the packs but NO they should not increase the print of the promo code.
2 ) I'm fine with Splinterlands assuming the Purchases of people who want refunds becuase they weren't in on the promo sale.
3 ) I'm not in favor of changing the circumstances under which anyone purchased the packs to get the promo. People made investment decisions based on the published criteria of the scarcity of these promo cards ( IE they will never appear in packs and they will be limited to the first 500k packs ) I think it sets a bad pricdent to change that AFTER the pack sale. Going forward saying all packs purchased in the first x minutes will be eligible for presale might be a better method but also will probably cause less push and shoving so i think that should be carefully looked at. I will be voting NO if all three of these Proposals are linked together. I'm ok with 1 ) if its adjusted to not inflated pre-sale, 2 ) I'm fine with as written and 3) I'm strongly against it.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Response to proposals

  1. Give them their free packs but I dont think the packs should be eligible for the airdrop.
  2. Okay with the refund.
  3. All purchases within the first five minutes should be eligible for the airdrop.
0
0
0.000
avatar

i think ... every one has right to take participate in the presale, and time should be increase but i will stand with the majority of the commuity if it is good for them then i agree but if not , i will not,, so i will go to with majority of the community. love to splinterland community

0
0
0.000
avatar

Overall, I think all three are long-run for the best of the game. To be clear about where I'm coming from, I was able to refresh the page, purchase 522 packs, and use 78 vouchers, all within the window. I am in the group most "hurt" by the proposal as-is. Here is why I think it's worth it.

  1. Not everyone has first-world internet or is entirely abled, and this is not a failing on their part, and they should not be punished for it. They were they, they tried their best, and they shouldn't be penalized because their cable wasn't fiber optic.

  2. The sales velocity crashed pretty hard after 500k was hit. I don't think anyone is a malicious actor who is claiming foul to get a bonus they don't deserve. I think everyone who bought legitimately thought they were in the first 500k/were trying to be there (see point 1). The proposal as-is won't therefore benefit unscrupulous actors, but will benefit those who really wanted to get in on it.

  3. Regarding proposal 1, I personally think everyone who missed it needs to be more detail oriented and pay more attention (again, I was able to refresh, slowly click through and ensure it was all good with plenty of time). I ALWAYS double-check anything when it comes to crypto and spending $2,500 and the kind of people who don't will not have this as their last bad experience. BUT, I also recognize it wasn't pre-populated like it usually is, and that can throw people off.

So at the end of the day, I am on-board with all 3 proposals as-is. However, I have a point of clarification and one recommendation for future releases.

Clarification question Do the proposals, as written, only add access to the promo, but not the first legit airdrop? E.g. if proposal 3 is adopted, will packs purchased between 1:48 and 3:00 be eligible for the promo but not the first airdrop? I am fine either way, but I can't tell which is the case.

Future recommendation I don't like the "first 3 minutes" rule going forward. It works here because as soon as people saw it was past 500k, they stopped buying because that was the rule going in. If it was just "first 3 minutes", I think people would have behaved much differently. It would also make planning much harder. I.e. with 500k pre-sale packs I know there will ~10k copies of the promo. If it's 3 minutes, the expected scarcity is much more variable and thus harder to predict if it's a good deal. I could see this reducing demand, leading to negative sentiment (is Splinterlands failing!?). I could also see it increasing demand and printing the promo into the ground (2M packs sold in 3 minutes - ~40k copies). It leads to even more uncertainty which I don't love as it makes planning hard. So in the future, I would probably vote against pre-sales being open for the first 3 minutes (although I don't know how to jive this and the fact that some people would then be left out due to crap internet. better minds than mine can probably come up with something)

0
0
0.000
avatar

I don't see any awareness of whales that are buying solely to promo card flip and block others which is an abuse of the system.

Cards/packs are an essential to this game. In the real world what happens to people that hoard essentials and price gouge when there is a scarcity due to a natural disaster or similar? They get dealt with by the law.

Pre-sale will see them buying to promo card flip at a very nice profit and sell packs at just under price afterwards because they got the purchase credits for future airdrops and the additional bonus packs.
End of pack inventory (last 5 to 10%) will see them buy up as many packs as possible and then sell them for like 5X or whatever creating an artificial scarcity, just like they did with untamed and dice - they are going to do it with CL and RW too.

Why can't we have purchase throttling towards the last 10% or 5% of RW and CL?
Why can't we have also a separated section for guild and group buys prior to presales (listing participants by player name) so you can see that they are legit and not trying to sneak by to hoard and price gouge and you can properly gauge/organize the live presale traffic?

0
0
0.000
avatar

This is sort of irrelevant to this discussion.

And comparing digital cards to life saving necessities is not exactly apples-to-apples.

And whales gonna whale no matter what. Nothing you can do will prevent that. The vote here at least makes it equitable (I'd guess whales are more likely to have faster internet and get in under the 500k, for instance, so the proposal will probably net hurt whales).

0
0
0.000
avatar

This is awesome and I agree with those changes above, I believe it will create a better community moving forward and thank you for all the hard work!

0
0
0.000
avatar

Great and as always, the team is so supportive of all the players which is what makes Splinterlands unique.

0
0
0.000
avatar

This is a fair solution for this particular instance. Moving forward, the technicals of whatever future scheme is decided for the next sale have to be implemented well. There should not have been a question as to whether or not you qualified for presale, as pack 500,001 should have been impossible to acquire before the general sale. So far as I figured, the general sale would occur at the same time the set released. Otherwise the first 500K aren't really a presale at all, merely the first minted. The next sale should probably include better guard rails to more clearly delineate these phases. Basically all of the recent releases have shown massive hype, but it's gotten a tad muddy after the fact in some cases. Here we are now, I suppose we're just staying in general sale? Adds doubt that doesn't need to be there.

Overall though, those numbers are impressive and show a thriving community. It's cool to be a part of that.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I mostly agree with this solution.

In my opinion it was a faulty or bad design that provoke both errors.
Having a presale end with no notification its just wrong. I hope you guys learned from this. I know it was told in advance that it would work this way but you should have foreseen that this was going to happened.
People who didn't get bonus packs because they didn't imput the voucher amount BECAUSE the voucher slot never scrolled down should also be properly compensated and included in the presale. Lets face it whoever designed that sell page made a big mistake. I'm sorry I don't mean to be harsh but it really screwed over a lot of people. Things are supposed to be easy for the customer not this confusing.
If this was a consumer case in court the customer would win it 100%.
Dont get me wrong, I love the game, I love you guys but sometimes a little bit of harsh criticism can be good. Pleas take my comments as someone who wants the best for the game and its future.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I have horrible internet but I still managed to snag 100 packs. My issue came from manually entering 100 and then hitting buy before the section to enter vouchers even popped up. It took almost 3 min for that section to pop up when I timed it earlier today. Would getting those 10 bonus packs be covered by Proposal 1 or?

0
0
0.000
avatar

Question- Whats the point of a Presale if you just let everyone have it and what about the people who saw it was over 500k in the first min and decided not to buy?
Question- Whats the point of putting forth a vote when anyone on the team can put their sps thumb on the scale, we know the team has multiple accounts and alts in the top 50 sps holders
Question- Is this being pushed because someone on the team missed out because pissing off 500k pack owners to please 100k or so pack owners doesnt seem fair or make sense...

0
0
0.000
avatar

Hi all, although it is an important event, to be waiting for it in front of the computer 24 hours a day, many of us have obligations that do not allow us to be refreshing to enter the sale.

I was working at the time of launch and with the mobile phone.

3 minutes to buy is not serious for such expenses. To be able to solve more than 90% of problems 3 and 2:

Please, dedicate at least the first hour to this action to be able to do all this without nerves or haste.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I have a few ideas about this. I read through about half of the comments so not sure if these have been proposed but...

  1. People who didn't enter the extra Vouchers for bonus packs should be allowed to get those bonus packs BUT those packs should NOT count towards the promo card. I'm one of these people so I have some skin in the game. I will be unhappy not to receive the extra promo card(s) the bonus packs would have given me, but my biggest concern is the fact that I'm not receiving a few hundred dollars worth of packs I feel I should have received if not for the mass chaos in those first couple minutes. The bonus packs and Vouchers should have been autofilled based on the number purchased. That's just common sense IMO and was definitely an oversight by the UX.

  2. 100% agree with this. Anyone buying under the impression they were getting pre-sale packs deserves a refund if they want it. They didn't get what they thought they were paying for. I will point out that although they now can buy those packs cheaper on the secondary market, those secondary market packs WILL NOT count towards the remaining airdrops so...even though they may be able to buy more with the same money, they will definitely lose some future value for doing it.

  3. In my opinion, there's no fair way to allow this number to go higher. As others have stated, you are benefitting the few at the cost of the many. You are penalizing the people who did what they had to do to get in on time to benefit some people who didn't. In point number 2 above, you are refunding people who didn't get what they thought they were paying for. Here, you are delivering less than what was promised to the people who DID get in. Not fair. It sucks but it kinda is what it is, right?

In the future, I think what needs to happen is there needs to be a defined number of promo cards being delivered. Then, you could do a 3 minute, 10 minute, 1 hour, 50 block (whatever parameter you wanted to set) and fit those promo cards into that window. You could then promise every purchaser 1 promo card for buying their first 50 packs or 100, whatever, and then divide the rest out between whatever the final number of purchased packs turns out to be. You could even do something like 100 gets 1 promo but 150 gets 2. Incentivize people to reach a higher tier. Then divide out the rest based on total packs sold/number of promos left. There's a bunch of math that could be done here to figure out the best way to do it, but at least this way, people who want in can get a promo card or two, and the whales will still be able to get larger quantities if they want them. They just won't know exactly how many until the sale is over. Instead of getting one for every 50 packs, it might be one for every 62. It might even be less than 50 if there aren't a lot of small purchasers. Like I said, I'm sure you've got people there that can take a few days to do the math and run some hypotheticals.

One final note, I will echo a few other peoples' comments regarding this/these proposals. I hope you will break them up into separate issues because they really all should be decided individually. Other than the fact they all happened on the Riftwatchers pre-sale, they're not really related.

I will also add, that if you take my solution on point one, you would be able to extend the 500,000 out to include a few more people. If, for instance, 8000 Vouchers did not get added correctly, you could deliver those 8000 packs as post pre-sale packs and add the next 8000 above the 500,000 into the pre-sale. That would at least cover a few of the people who barely missed. Like I said, while I would rather get the extra promo cards, I am ultimately responsible for not entering the voucher number correctly. I feel I deserve the packs as the UX was confusing while the rush was on, but I can see forgoing the promo cards. That will suck for the people using the bonus packs to get to 1000 for the gold foil, but they'll still get their title and will still have a legitimate chance to get one on the drop.

Overall, I think it was a great day for the entire Splinterlands economy. The best lessons in life are almost always learned the hard way. There's no substitute for experience. Hopefully the lessons learned here will serve this community well going forward.

0
0
0.000
avatar

i think there are some great points in here. Love your thinking. Im, not sure whether the 8000 packs thing works, but if it did i would vote for it and pretty much the other ideas here. the other nice response is from @cherute below about how a future sale might work. Basically I think you two are thinking in the right direction (in terms of my own personal sentiment)

0
0
0.000
avatar

Yeah, upon thinking about it further, the hypothetical 8000 packs I'm talking about above were actually already sold as part of the 500,000 since they were obviously not counted during the sale. So, if they were to give out the bonus packs to the people who missed, I now really feel they need to be post pre-sale packs and not count towards the promo card. If they give out those bonuses as pre-sale packs, the final number will be 500,000 PLUS those missed bonus packs, so again, they'll be giving out more promo cards than originally intended. That said, it would probably only be a couple hundred so...not a huge increase compared to the guaranteed 10,000 plus airdrop already coming out but....still an increase.

0
0
0.000
avatar

The bonus packs and Vouchers should have been autofilled based on the number purchased. That's just common sense IMO and was definitely an oversight by the UX.

Totally agree.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I wasted all my efforts for nothing my 1 week preparation for nothing didn't make it to the pre sale.

I want a refund.
Or atleast adjust the pre sale cap to 600k.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Change the time of 3 minutes extension to 20mins for other players benefits its not fair for small time player who doesn't have resources or funds they miss their chances of promo cards.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Have you looked how Pancake does presales/LP auctions.

There is hours for users to pledge funds, when there is excess, tokens are being alocated proportionaly and all overflow, excess funds are returned to everyone at the end of the auction.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Best way is to have general sale not to follow presale at exact time. General sale should open after a day.

For everyone getting fair chance, presale bonus pack logic need to be removed and all order received in first 8 hour should go with "fullfill" or "refund" if number of order received are greater then presale. This also mean partial fullfillment of order too.

0
0
0.000
avatar

About the UX I think its better to use the same layout/design used in chaos legion pack to avoid confusion.
I hope refund is possible. :(

0
0
0.000
avatar

better if they some sort of popup or indicator text that the said, presale is over like that..

0
0
0.000
avatar

In short: 1 - yes, 2 - yes, 3 - no. More about 3: One of my transactions was on block 67936465, that is, the final block 67936464 is my next. But I will vote NO (3) because:
I live by the principle of "a man said - a man did, if he's a man"
There was information in advance that the promo cards would be received by the first 500,000 packs who bought them, hence the conclusion that this issue is closed. Those people who could well done! - the rest - you'll be lucky next time! It is impossible to increase the total amount of the declared drop of promo cards - this is a deception of those who managed, as well as an increase in the supply on the market and a decrease in the cost of the promo. Or you are obliged to compensate the difference to those who managed (by dropping more cards or otherwise, and these people must agree with the proposal). Based on these obvious things, in case of voting on item 3, I will naturally vote NO.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Proposal for Future Sales instead of 3 min. rule

This would perhaps require a bit more coding, but it would make a process that is more equitable and less susceptible to network jams.

  • Prior to the start of a sale, set up a page that allows users to enter the total # of items they wish to purchase in the sale and authorize the necessary funding for the purchase. Once the sale starts the transactions will happen automatically according to the rules below which would also apply to manual transactions
  • Limit the # of items that a user can purchase in a single transaction
  • Set a cooldown between transactions per user
  • Set a maximum mint number
  • A formula could be applied to both the item limit and the cooldown so that, for example, the limit could go up after a set time to allow whales to make larger purchases once the initial rush is over.
Examples

(Just giving the idea - these numbers would probably not be ideal)

  • For pack presales set a transaction limit of 100 gems/transaction and a cooldown of 1 min between transactions. After 5 minutes raise the limit to 500 gems and after 10 minutes remove the limit.
  • For items with smaller mint limits like the Runies set the limit to 1
Benefits
  • This would allow users from any time zone, on any work schedule, with any kind of disabilities, etc. to participate in the sale
  • Krill and Minnows would have an opportunity to get their small purchases in before the Whales swallow the bulk of the sale
  • Automating the purchase transactions should give more control and prevent network congestion and related issues
  • Having intended sales pre-entered would give the developers an idea ahead of time about the level of interest in the sale
  • Having the limit/cooldown follow a formula allows a great deal of flexibility for different types of sales
Drawbacks
  • You might lose a tiny bit of the FOMO factor
  • Maybe some difficulties with the transaction authorizations? I'm assuming that since we can set up pre-authorized buy orders on PeakMonsters that we could do something similar for this.
0
0
0.000
avatar

Additional benefit - you wouldn't need to worry about hiding the page in fear of bots as the playing field would be level for everyone.

0
0
0.000
avatar

love these ideas. I would vote for this to be persued as a sales mechanism (or at least to be further discussed in depth). I also liked the response from @dagger212 above in regards to the proposals. I think that between the two of you there is a line of thought that I can get on board with. Thanks for putting the effort in. I was struggling to find a middle ground between my heart and my head while reading through all these answers

0
0
0.000
avatar

The biggest drawback I see to this is it would mean that people would set up many multiple accounts in order to get all of their guaranteed packs. Unfortunately, it is what it is. If people want to game the system, they'll find a way. There really is no perfect way to do it. As an economy, they need to take care of the whales since they are the ones providing the bulk of the money, but they also need to make sure the little guys can participate or it just becomes a haves vs the have-nots situation.

I'm not sure what the best solution is but it's encouraging that they are at least putting in the time and effort to think about it. It's never going to be perfect as there's no way to make everyone happy, just like everything else in life.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I think something like this is the fairest way. You can avoid multi-account shenanigans by having the smart contract randomly choose accounts weighted by the number of packs they wish to purchase instead of a transaction limit. They then get allocated up to 50 packs and the promo if they wanted the full 50.

0
0
0.000
avatar
  1. Although it is a design mistake not to have a default value in voucher spent for bonus packs, i still buyer should have been careful about this. You are making a purchase worth 100s of dollars so you gotta be sure you are doing everything right. Compensation for those are nice but not necessary in my opinion.
  2. Definitely yes. There should have a been 5-10 min break between presale and general sale. So those who think they are buying for presale but couldn't make the first 500k, must be refunded.
  3. Definitely no. It was declared as first 500k would be eligible for presale, so changing it is not fair for the ones who made everything ready on time and made their purchase in the 1st minute without an issue. These kind of sales need a commitment from the ones who is dying to buy those packs. Bad connections, being 1 minute late, etc are all part of the game and we all knew this could happen.
0
0
0.000
avatar

My opinion:

First proposal: On the Fence.

  • While it is true that the UX is confusing and a hassle for users to indicate the vouchers/pack quantity manually, Splinterlands devs should already have a contingency plan for this issue as I believe it already happened in the past with Chaos Legion. They should make a system that automatically populates the maximum number of packs that one could buy with the current vouchers and SPS on-hand to remove redundancy. Having a 2-3% increase in promo card print would hurt the price of the promo card itself, no matter how small that percentage is.

Second proposal: Yes.

  • Everyone that participates in the pre-sale is purely in it for the limited edition promo card. If not, they could just buy the packs in the general sale. Common sense right? Hence, I agree with the 100% full refund if they found out that they did not make the cut. It doesn't matter if the company actually holds these refunded packs for promotions, etc as it's merely a transfer of ownership (no inflationary pressures here).

Third Proposal: HARD No.

  • Increasing the time frame to the first 3 minutes of pre-sale would be disastrous for the price of the promo card. A whopping 10% increase in print would more likely result in more than a 10% reduction in value. Not surprising that if that happens, this promo card would have the lowest price of all the legendary promo cards. It is also unfair for the players who bought packs within the hive blocks of the 500k pre-sale limit. It definitely sounds harsh and heartless, but it is what it is.

IMAGINE waiting in line to buy a LIMITED edition Watch or Shoes (fixed supply that is known to everyone). You were the last customer to get it, so you felt lucky. Then the hundreds of people behind you start to riot. To appease these people, the company manufactures more of the items and the employees start to bring them out from the warehouse/storage. I don't know man, it feels like someone spit on my face and trampled my effort.

0
0
0.000
avatar

They should make a system that automatically populates the maximum number of packs that one could buy with the current vouchers and SPS on-hand to remove redundancy.

Yep. The same as what is in place for the purchase of CL packs.

0
0
0.000
avatar

These 3 Should Be 3 Separate Proposals

This is what I have to add to the conversation. Many users are not treating the various factors as all "Yes" or "No" votes. If these were presented in a single DAO proposal, it would mean many voters will have to make a compromised and weighted decision that are less representative of what they really feel as the best course of action. I have added a poll where users can vote. I think most people will prefer to not vote for an all or nothing proposal.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

I plan to write a more in-depth explanation regarding the various reasons why I am SUPPORTING this proposal and resolution.

But as a quick response to those complaining about "precedent" and "changing the terms of what was initially announced" I would like to gently remind people that at the beginning of the year (January 2022) during the Chaos Legion general sale, Yabapmatt and Splinterlands did extend the deadline for the general sale by 3 hours, due to issues that some people had with failed credit purchases:

https://peakd.com/splinterlands/@splinterlands/chaos-legion-general-sale-stats-and-airdrop-updates

"While the website generally held up well during the launch, there were unfortunately some issues with payment processing for credits purchases due to the overwhelming volume. Our development team resolved the issues within a few hours and our support team has been doing a fantastic job of working through the tickets.

Since it ended up taking a while for support to resolve all of the failed credits purchases, we will be extending the window in which all pack sales will be eligible for the next THREE airdrops until 4:00 PM EST / 21:00 UTC today in order to ensure that those people who were waiting on failed purchases have a fair chance of getting their packs in time.

This means that everyone has approximately another 3 hours left to purchase Chaos legion packs that will be eligible for the first three general sale airdrops - plus all of the eight remaining airdrops to be released over the life of the edition!"

--> I recall that most people were supportive of that resolution. I don't remember many people complaining about how extending the sale period would devalue the airdrop cards for everyone else, that this was redistributing wealth, and that people who were trying to buy credits didn't sufficiently prepare because they didn't buy those credits even earlier.

Special thanks to @cryptomancer for helping to jog my memory!

0
0
0.000
avatar

you might want to mention that you are not unbiased, and are asking for 1000 packs yourself.

0
0
0.000
avatar

#1. I fall under category #1 (had the UI issue with bonus packs).

#2. Yabapmatt falls under categories both #1 and #3 (he intentionally waited till the first 500K sold before putting his own order in. But if the proposal passes, his order would get included. And he also failed to put in for bonus packs).

#3. As Aggy mentioned on Discord Mavericks, he has a particular interest in this because if part #3 isn't passed, it significantly complicates any refund situation (which would then require board approval because of the monetary amount)

#4. I also have an interest in this because my department (Support) is going to have to deal with all the refund requests. (There will be fewer tickets to deal with if the proposal is passed).

#5. Furthermore, my department (Support) is disproportionately affected by the ramifications of this proposal passing or not passing, because we are the ones who have to deal with irate customers and we are the ones who have to reconcile broader company policies regarding refunds and other customer issues with whatever happens with this vote.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

The support will also have to deal with trouble, if at one time more promo cards are printed than were specified before the purchase! because then the buyers were deceived! and that would affect more people! ;)

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

Sounds fair to me when your debating only 3 minutes vs 1.5 its still damn fast to sell out! I kind of miss the first 24 hours of sales like with Chaos that are not timezone sensitive but time window sensitive as I wasn't able to buy in time as I was busy that day and only could look at it 2 hours later.

--
From Chaos launch
In order to attempt to prevent a huge rush to buy packs when the general sale begins, we will make it so that ALL packs purchased in the first 24 hours of the general sale will be eligible for all of the remaining airdrops.

For example, if over 3M packs are sold in the first 24 hours of the general sale, then there will be three new cards airdropped to pack purchasers, and EVERY PACK purchased in those first 24 hours will be eligible for ALL THREE of the airdrops.

This means that there is no rush to get packs quickly when the general sale starts - everyone will have 24 hours to purchase their packs and receive all of the same benefits as players who purchased earlier.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Contributing 2 cents of thoughts here:

3 Proposals by Splinterlands

  1. Anyone that purchased packs during the presale, but used less than the full amount of Vouchers be allowed to purchase the full amount of presale eligible packs by submitting the missing Vouchers. This will increase the total number of pre-sale packs eligible for rewards by what we estimate to be in the 2-3% range.
    Yes definitely, because they probably wanted to use their full vouchers anyway. I almost didn't include the bonus packs in my purchase as well.

  2. Anyone requesting refunds will be refunded by the exact amount they purchased (in both SPS and VOUCHERs) by the Splinterlands company as opposed to the DAO. Splinterlands will then be considered the purchaser of those packs and will receive the presale bonuses like any other account, but unlike any other account we intend to use the majority of purchased packs and awarded cards as promotional giveaways.
    This is a pure positive bonus for players at the cost of the company. Yes to this since I'm a player, and I hope it does not incur too much cost for Splinterlands. Hopefully, Splinterlands will inform players who are NOT eligible for the promo card in advance first, so that players affected can make an informed decision.

  3. We would like to increase the number of packs eligible for pre-sale rewards to allow anyone that purchased packs within the first 3 minutes (60 blocks). This would be a ~10% increase to the total pre-sale packs and resolve 60% of the transactions and 81% of the financial considerations of the presale refund requests. It would also give more time to people who physically can't complete the sale in less time.
    This is tricky because players bought into presale mainly for the benefits provided by the promo card. Increasing its print rate will reduce the benefit of joining the presale. Personally, I would still say yes to this since players who bought within 3 minutes should have the intention of joining the presale in the first place.

Posted using Splintertalk

0
0
0.000
avatar

yaba eg has waited extra until the presale is over and then bought comfortably and he has needed 2.33 minutes, how do you get the idea that you should extend the presale to 3 minutes? makes no sense to me!
if someone is slower than someone who waited for it to be over, then that person overslept or was not prepared.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I read alot of comments and they r freaking awesome. The power of sps staked is at play.

I will personally downvote all 3. The past is in the past. Fix things for future. :)

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

There is a serious bug with those bonus packs. not minor UI issue.

13:47 on video.

Check this video, voucher window is shown after he confirmed the purchase on confirmation box.
So UI allowed people to buy without even knowing that there is a voucher window.

This shouldn't even be for a vote. Imagine if you get in that situation next time?

0
0
0.000
avatar

Thanks for sharing this. This is a helpful example! 😺

0
0
0.000
avatar

watch mine I knew better than to hit that because we always have to put in the vouchers figured it out did it find and in time. Rushing is not an reason anyone in life gets a due over

0
0
0.000
avatar

What? There was literally no dialog for bonus packs when he clicked buy. Have you participated in anything like this before? Rushing WAS the name of the game here.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Yeah, the same thing happened to me. Plugged in the packs and hit buy, and saw the bonus pack input appear after the fact. The fact the acknowledged this and implied they would make good, let people open tickets with the TXID, then basically reversed and stated it would be put to a vote is disappointing. This was a UI issue, and here you have documented proof. Some people are implying that people should have taken their time to let that dialog appear (assuming it would) when seconds counted is a bit disingenuous.

0
0
0.000
avatar

This is EXACTLY what happened to me

0
0
0.000
avatar

I assume that we are adults and who confirms the purchase although too few packs are displayed is probably his own fault!

0
0
0.000
avatar

Imagine if you get in that situation next time?

It was ..and I CHECKED the confirmation, knowing I hadn't entered the vouchers that I KNEW ahead of time were required.

So.. I hit "cancel" on the prompt to confirm "A clearly incorrect order"

Then I interacted w/ the page - really just clicked to put focus back and take a look - then keyed my vouchers..and hit buy again.

And then.... I CHECKED THE CONFIRMATION... and it was "cleary the correct order", so I confirmed....

0
0
0.000
avatar

#1 and #2 yes
#3 no

0
0
0.000
avatar

I support this proposal.
I support 1 & 2, because there was a clear UX mistake.
I support 3 because there should have been a system like this for any sale that can sell out fast. It was very expected that the presale would sell out so fast. Not enough thought went into this before the sale.
I don't think printing more presale packs and printing more promo cards are a huge deal in a long run. The game will grow and packs and promo cards still will be very scarce assets.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I will support the proposal because as long as we can improve our sale system in the future to avoid the same confusion and mistake.
I feel that if people were buying under the assumption that it was still a pre-sale purchase and were not given notice that the pre-sale already sold out it sure will be a horrible experience and we need to have a clear improvement to prevent that from happening in the future (either stop the sale when it sold out or given notice that the purchase will not be counted before the purchase).
Also, the vouchers should be automatically applied toward bonus packs and given notice if not enough vouchers to cover the bonus packs.
As a community, I sympathize with and feel the frustration and pains of people that just missed the sale and have no way of knowing it therefore I am okay with the additional 10% inflation on the promo cards. I would hope for the same support if I was on the other end of the situation and I trust we can all learn and improve from this and come out better.

0
0
0.000
avatar

what should we learn from this if things are simply changed after the purchase, then I demand that new alpha beta packs are printed, because at the time I had no knowledge that splinterlands exists, clearly error of splinterlands that no advertising has reached me and I had no chance and I am now disadvantaged.......

0
0
0.000
avatar

That is not even the same thing, we are talking about the sale mechanism that is lacking and causes confusion and wasted time and improving upon it but still showing we understand and will try to take care of our fellow members within reason if we can.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

this change can be introduced in the future, but you can't change the purchase contract after the fact. you can give the money back to the people who thought they were still buying from the first 500k packs okay. but to print more cards now than was fixed before the purchase is fraud!

imagine you buy a playsation with 2 joypads and one day later the salesman rings your doorbell and takes one joypad away and gives you a cheap one just because he wants to satisfy more customers.

0
0
0.000
avatar

We can if we feel is reasonable and voted for it. And no one is taking away your promo card only voting to print an extra 10% or not. How will you feel if you were on the other end of this?

0
0
0.000
avatar

Changing the whitepaper after the fact will have long term ripple effects - SPL can not be trusted if they allow this. Simple. Smart investors will think twice - "are they lying this time too?"

0
0
0.000
avatar

i would be disappointed and try harder next time, but i wouldn't punish the others who made it!

0
0
0.000
avatar

just look at how the sale of limited shoes goes, there are also a lot of people crying that they were not the first, but still no one would come to the idea to simply produce more.

  1. it would be illegal and would have criminal consequences for the seller.
  2. future limited shoes would lose massively in value, if people knew that the seller simply produces more in the end!
0
0
0.000
avatar

We are not making this a norm, we are growing and learning to improve as a whole community. Would you rather have a community that is compassionate or just a hard-cold I got mine so screw you type of mindset? I personally rather take a minute loss on my supposedly "investment" and choose to support my fellow gamer. I always feel we as a whole should always treat this as a "Game" and "Fun" first before financial gains. Purely focus on the value that just turns us into cold-hearted investors and we already have plenty of those in the world I rather we try to build something different together here.

0
0
0.000
avatar

exactly grow and learn, that is to be better in the future and not to change the past!

0
0
0.000
avatar

Any changes can only be made by the vote so it has nothing to do with the trust issues.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

1 - NO
2 - Yes
3 - NO

Any deviation from the 500k packs listed in the whitepaper will completely destroy credibility of the system and result in smart investors looking elsewhere.

Users, like me - accepted that truth was being spoken presale, and if I took opportunity costs to participate, that there would indeed be exactly 500k packs eligible for rewards.

Now you want to dilute the rarity with zero compensation?

Suddenly the op costs to participate in TD, GLX, etc is unknown and unacceptable...

0
0
0.000
avatar

1- yes
2- yes
3- no - there must be a pause between presale and general sale. pre sale packs must be limited.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I recommend that these should be three different proposals, and not one clustering the three of them

0
0
0.000
avatar

Potentially unpopular opinion here, but maybe we should be limit the number of packs any 1 account can purchase in the presale? It seems to me that some people (depending on time zones or schedules) may never be able to participate. Promo cards are great and should have some value but honestly, a presale lasting less than 2 minutes is a bit crazy. There should be a 12-24 hour window. Whales can flame but honestly, there's no good reason to sell that quickly.

0
0
0.000
avatar

i support all of the Splinterlands Riftwatchers Presale Adjustments Request/Proposal. For future sales i would like to see quick buy options for the 100, 500, 2K and maybe add a 1K bonus rates. This may also slow down the over 2k whale buys allowing smaller buys to go thru quicker. the Quick Buy option would need to Auto fill in the correct vouchers needed for max benefit to the purchaser(if they have the vouchers). This is especially important for Presales and FOMO buying.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I have now thought quite a while on this proposals.

At first I was positive on all 3 of them with 3 beeing the hardest.

But the more I think about it, I am comming to the following conclusion.

Let me start with Nr3:
In my opinion the rules have been clear. And it was a given, that the packs would sell out fast. 1:39 is more than enough time to enter a predefined number of packs.
If I am not able to join the sale, at this point in time, I could have reached out for other players to help. Ther have been several slaes done for other players.

If in the future the time will be 3 minutes. Would be fine for me, but it should not increase the inflation of the promocard, but increase the number of packs needed per promocard.

Lets continue with 1:
That it is possible to enter the wrong number of vouchers to get all the bonuspacks in this haste can happen. So I would say, let the people buy the additional bonus packs with vouchers. But these packs should not count as presale packs. A small penalty should be. I say this, even though I would benefit from this proposal.

Finaly 2:
Since people could not know while buying, if they are in the presale or not. The should be able to get a refund of their complete or partly buy.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

Nice to see such a discussion around this and some strong points. There are some heated points so lets hope whatever the outcome we all respect the community decision and move on.

Seems like all 3 should be separate proposals.

Personally:
1-Yes
2-Partially. Only if you purchased outside the presale by mistake. If you purchased inside the presale it just opens an avenue for exploiting the SPS gains since presale
3-Number 2, if only for outside the presale, provides a solution already and makes this option redundant

0
0
0.000
avatar

I agree with the 3 proposals.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I am against this in its current form, we all had the same chance, you rushed and missed voucher bonus, tough thats life, If the team want to add that later on trade it is not in presale packs, Proposal 1 and 3 is a NO.. Proposal 2 I do not like it how it is but you are playing with the DAO and accepting responsibility to refund, This needs a rethink, down vote from Druids. Is this Blockchain or not,, Web3.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I bought 100 packs within the time limit (by 20 blocks), but didn’t notice the bonus packs didn’t auto-populate in my rush to make the purchase.

I was kicking myself afterwards and had accepted it was my fail, until I entered 100 into the general sale box and the 10% auto-populated (because who would buy and eligible pack quantity and not want bonus packs), that was when I asked my guild mates their thoughts and was directed to raise a support ticket.

I support the proposal, for those who missed the bonus packs they should have got (me)and for those who bought in the first 3 minutes but found they’d bought in the general sale.

I am always impressed how the Splinterlands team deals with issues when they arise.

Transparent discussions with the whole community, the thought and consideration that goes into proposing solutions to benefit as many as possible, this is the way governments should function.

Keep up the good work, respect to all

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

Loved the presale day, and the first couple of minutes after it 😜
I think if this passes it will do good to all the community 😙, it is just wrong and unfair.

0
0
0.000
avatar

My main comment is that at the very end of the thread you indicate that with the Runi sell there is no way to ensure 3 minutes of access because of the hard cap on the number of Runi. The expectation is that the whitelist will sell out in seconds. You indicate you 'are working on ensuring access" but do not provide details. Please provide details if possible? I am of the opinion that the greater number of players who end up purchasing Runi or other limited release items, the greater the number of happy engaged players the game has. Thank you and have a good day!

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

I vote number 2 . You cannot edit supply after the sale that's not the way things work. You will lose people confidence in future sales.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

Do I believe point 1 of the proposal is fair? Yes ux errors made people miss to buy bonus packs that they intended to buy anyway. Makes no sense to punish them for errors in the webpage.
Point 2 also makes sense, anyone has a right to change their minds after a purchase.
Do I believe point 3, extending the presale window is fair? Not really, I dont like the idea of extending presales. Would I vote for it anyways? definetely yes. I think keeping the players happy is way more important than anything. And some technical issues arise during the sale so even If I dont entirely agree its its reasonable to do this.
The entire proposal has my vote, I wish we can move forward as a community together instead of fighting each others for a 10% increase in a print rate of a card.

0
0
0.000
avatar

As it seems that support for this is largely divided depending on the items mentioned, I'd personally prefer if this was implemented as separate votes for separate points in the proposal.

Especially in so much as not all elements are required, some of these proposed solutions could stand alone.

Either way - I personally really appreciate handling the solutions this way. Love that governance will have a say in how this goes. Power to the Players! :)

0
0
0.000
avatar

If we want to maintain scarcity and fairness here is a solution: Use a system similar to the airdrop system for promo cards. Pre-orders can be taken up until general sale. This would work out as:

x packs guarantees a promo card
remaining promo cards are assigned via lottery up to the total mint

RW example:
300 packs guarantees a promo (if all packs sell out then there will be none to allocate via lottery, but not everyone will buy in batches of 300).

Modest blowout:
750,000 packs are sold, this is 25% of all packs and a maximum of 2500 promo cards, (its likely to be more like 2000)
remaining 7500-8000 are allocated to pre-order participants via a lottery 1 pack = 1 chance.

Full blowout:
3,000,000 packs are sold, this is all available packs and a maximum of 10000 promo cards (its likely to be more like 6-8000)
remaining 0-4000 are allocated to pre-order participants via a lottery 1 pack = 1 chance.

If all packs are sold in pre-sale then the total number of packs was too low.

I also think anyone who purchases during the pre-sale should gain equal access to the airdropped cards

0
0
0.000
avatar

In many countries like mine, the internet is not super fast and I guess it was my bad even to try to buy. Whatever the team decides, I am in full support.

0
0
0.000