SPS Governance Proposal - Hire Steem Monsters Corp. to Develop a Bitcoin Halving Promo Event
797c8c09ded91264febe8730f0ce078c2573d9a3
The Splinterlands team requests that the SPS DAO hire Steem Monsters Corp. to build and launch a new DEC/VOUCHER burning promotional event within the Splinterlands game to celebrate the upcoming Bitcoin halving.
The team is asking for a payment of $200,000 ($200k) from the DAO, payable in USDC or USDT tokens, to develop and operate the promotion, which includes creating and offering two new limited-edition promo cards, in addition to many other prizes.
Event Details
The event is planned to run for 30 days, starting shortly before the upcoming Bitcoin halving, during which time players will be able to purchase the two limited-edition promo cards by burning DEC, DEC-B, or VOUCHER tokens.
There is planned to be one Legendary and one Rare promo card offered for sale, both of which are planned to be dual-element units. As limited-edition promo cards, these cards will only be available for purchase during this event, and will not be found in packs. Once the event ends, the cards will only be able to be obtained on the peer-to-peer marketplace from other players.
The Legendary promo card is planned to cost 31,250 (31.25k) DEC/DEC-B or 625 VOUCHER tokens, and the Rare promo card is planned to cost 3,125 (3.125k) DEC/DEC-B or 62.5 VOUCHER tokens. The cost is meant to commemorate the new Bitcoin block reward after the halving of 3.125 BTC. Each card purchased will have a 4% chance of being Gold Foil. Please note that all tokens spent to purchase the cards will be burned, and it will not be possible to split the cost for a single card between the available currencies.
Additionally, players will earn points for each DEC/DEC-B/Voucher burned purchasing the promo cards. Every 10,000 (10k) points earned by a player will give them a chance at winning one of the available prizes, and the players with the most points in total at the end of the event will win the guaranteed leaderboard prizes.
Players will receive 1 point for each DEC/DEC-B burned and 50 points for each Voucher burned. We also plan to include point multipliers to encourage players to participate earlier on in the event and reduce the ability for players to snipe leaderboard spots at the end. This means that on the first day of the event, players will receive a 3x multiplier for leaderboard points when burning tokens, and the multiplier will decrease evenly each day until the last day when players will not receive any points multiplier.
Prizes
The Splinterlands team is planning to provide the following prizes from its own wallets for the event (nearly $100k worth at current market prices):
- 500 PLOT tokens
- 100 Alpha packs
- 250 Beta packs
- 500 Untamed Packs
- 50 Essence Orb Packs
- 100 Azmare Dice Packs
- 20 Runi NFTs
Players will have the chance to win one of the above prizes for each 10,000 (10k) points they accumulate from purchasing the promo cards during the event. Please keep in mind that there will be a 3x point multiplier on the first day of the event, so purchasing one Rare promo card on the first day for 3,125 DEC will give the purchaser 9,375 points, for example. The multiplier will decrease each day, linearly, until it reaches 1x on the last day of the event.
Please note that, if this proposal passes, we plan to submit a second proposal to request that the DAO provide 10,000 (10k) Riftwatchers packs from its treasury as additional prizes for the event. While not necessary, we believe the addition of Riftwatchers packs would add greatly to the event, allowing many more players to get a prize, while only increasing the circulation of Riftwatchers cards by about 1%.
Leaderboard Prizes
While the prizes listed above will be awarded randomly to players who participate with each 10k worth of points counting as one chance to win, there will also be prizes for the players who accumulate the most points in total over the course of the event. The primary leaderboard prizes will be the following in-game titles:
- 1-10 - "The Burninator" Legendary Title
- 11-60 - "The Incinerator" Epic Title
- 61-200 - "The Scorcher" Rare Title
These are the same titles that were awarded for the first burning event last year and we purposely only gave out a relatively small number of them last year so that we could continue to award them for future burning events.
In addition to the titles, players in the top 20 leaderboard spots will receive the following guaranteed promo cards in addition to the ones they purchased during the event. Note that players will receive a single card pre-combined to the BCX specified in the table below:
| Place | RF Legendary | RF Rare | GF Legendary | GF Rare |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | MAX | MAX | MAX | MAX |
| 2 | MAX | MAX | 3 BCX | 16 BCX |
| 3 | MAX | MAX | 2 BCX | 11 BCX |
| 4 | MAX | MAX | 1 BCX | 7 BCX |
| 5 | MAX | MAX | -- | 6 BCX |
| 6 | MAX | MAX | -- | 5 BCX |
| 7 | MAX | MAX | -- | 4 BCX |
| 8 | MAX | MAX | -- | 3 BCX |
| 9 | MAX | MAX | -- | 2 BCX |
| 10 | MAX | MAX | -- | 1 BCX |
| 11 | MAX | MAX | -- | -- |
| 12 | 6 BCX | MAX | -- | -- |
| 13 | 3 BCX | MAX | -- | -- |
| 14 | 1 BCX | 85 BCX | -- | -- |
| 15 | -- | 60 BCX | -- | -- |
| 16 | -- | 40 BCX | -- | -- |
| 17 | -- | 25 BCX | -- | -- |
| 18 | -- | 14 BCX | -- | -- |
| 19 | -- | 5 BCX | -- | -- |
| 20 | -- | 1 BCX | -- | -- |
Request for Funding
Initially, our plan was to sell these promo cards directly as a way to generate revenue for the company. In that case, all of the DEC spent would go to the company wallet and would then be indirectly sold back into the ecosystem through the Credits mechanism (when players spend Credits on packs or cards on the market, the company pays out DEC tokens and keeps the funds used to buy the Credits). This would be net neutral to SPS token holders as any tokens spent would quickly end up back in circulation.
We believe it would be far better for SPS token holders, however, if the DAO pays for the event using its funds held in non-Splinterlands tokens, thereby allowing all DEC spent for the event to be burned, which would add value to the SPS token rather than being net neutral. Based on past events and current market conditions, we estimate that around $400k worth of tokens will be burned in this event, giving the DAO the opportunity to generate a very significant return on its investment and provide considerable value for SPS token holders.
As mentioned above, Steem Monsters Corp. is requesting $200,000 ($200k) in payment from the DAO in order to develop and operate this event, put up prizes from our treasury, and to cover the opportunity cost of forgoing the originally planned promo card sale revenue. We understand this is a relatively large sum (roughly 8% of the DAO's current non-SL funds) and we encourage the SPS token holder community to consider the opportunity carefully. If the token holders ultimately decide not to approve this proposal, then the company plans to conduct the event as originally designed with all DEC going to the company as revenue.
In either case, we look forward to an exciting in-game event to celebrate this important milestone in the cryptocurrency space!
What about Guild Power for the burned DEC?
that would be nice lol
Mobility in the Guild formations would certainly not hurt.
i would be all for it but seems like this isn't the case
Very true
Unlike the last burning event, in this event players will be directly purchasing the promo cards by burning the DEC, so there is no reason to provide Guild Power or anything else on top of the purchase.
I see, well thanks for the clarification.
I'm sorry, but I'm voting NO on this one.
Stop extracting such huge amounts of money from the DAO, 200k is just too much.
Just my thoughts on this proposal
That's totally fine! As I mentioned in another reply, from the company's perspective, we will probably end up with more money if this proposal fails and we just do a normal promo card sale as I expect that will bring in far more than $200k.
But from the perspective of the ecosystem over the long term I feel it would be better to have the DAO pay the company and have the value go to the SPS token, which is why it's being proposed. It's completely up to the token holders though and I do not plan to vote myself or try to sway players' opinions in any way.
Congrats you basically confessed to building a system where company always wins at the expense of the players. If this isn't proof of how little the company thinks of its “players/investors” idk what does.
“If you guys approve this great, we get money from the DAO. If you guys don’t then F the ecosystem will just create promo cards to get the money we want and dilute the ecosystem more”
How about instead of burn events you dodo birds focus on bringing in players and retaining them. For example building a game that is actually fun to play and accessible.
That's literally our primary focus for this year. Can I ask how you expect us to pay for building the game and bringing in players without selling anything or getting help from the DAO?
Kudos to you Matt. You took a very harsh response and stuck with trying to find a way to listen and improve instead of letting things devolve (I'm not being sarcastic here).
The only way this game grows and is sustainable is through growing users. There needs to be a target number of daily active users we need to hit. Looking at the 10m rebellion packs, alone, I would guess that number needs to be closer to 100k. People who are actually playing (have Sps, own cards, or rent) is probably closer to 20k at best at the moment? You’re asking people to invest $500ish right off the bat or rent and they may not even like the game enough to go through the trouble of managing rentals. I’ve done it, it’s a pain and the economics of it rarely works out. Users need to be eased into it.
We may not like the idea of a freemium model but it is proven to work. We need a base to build off of. 20k active users and a measly 3-5% capture rate on new accounts isn’t going to cut it. Or if you’re going off the 3-5% you need much more volume on new accounts. Growth has been extremely stagnant and honestly in decline. The company or Dao may be negative but that’s what growing companies go through. Look at a company like Netflix, they can report millions in loses but as long as subscribers are growing it shows potential and hope for investors to keep buying. This is the approach Splinterlands needs. I would gladly keep investing if we could see consistent reports on user growth. Focus on adding people. Then after you’ve reached a saturation point. Shift the focus ARPU.
I’ve suggested how to attract more players in a blog. It’s far from a perfect suggestion as I would need to understand more about the inner workings and budgeting to find out how sustainable it would be.
https://peakd.com/splinterlands/@dmah/attracting-new-players
If we cant attract more users lmk. I’ll cash out like the special needs person suggested in this thread. The game is good and I like to gamble/invest but more and more I’m not seeing a sustainable business model here and I think it is important for others to know to avoid similar pitfalls.
Also, add a proposal for "building a game that is actually fun to play and accessible." since that is too general.
I'm having fun at the game at the moment. Splinterlands is my most played card game last year up to date. So, I am not sure where you're coming from and curious what is your proposal for this.
I will agree though on bringing new players in the game and my comment is always, "try to promote this game to kids/younger audience by making an anime of sort". I always compare this to Yugioh, in which I watched when I was like 7 years old and once I was old enough to save, like 15 or 16, tried to play competitively. I'm not sure if Splinterlands will still be alive after 8 years but it's a good way to bring new loyal people in the game.
Ideas on how to bring in more players in my blog below:
Changing Spellbooks and a better experience
You’re right. There are certainly some unique aspects of the game. I’m glad you’re enjoying it but are others? Just look at the daily battles played. Peakmonsters say there is about 400,000 battles a day. Let’s assume those players play the max free 24 games a day. That’s ~17k active daily players. Thats an extremely small number. I would hope Splinterlands/steem would be focusing on increasing and maintaining a number closer to at least 100k instead of dumb promos that do nothing to attract new players. Just look at the history of these promos lol anyone want to fondly remember the waka flocks promo? They’re shamelessly baiting/hoping people “invest” in these promos and then when the value absolutely tanks they wonder why people don’t stick around. Peakmonsters says there has been 5500 new accounts in the past 30 days yet only 180 of those got spell books. That’s a horrible conversion rate and indicative of how little people enjoy the game when introduced to it.
Bro, are you delusional or something? If they literally confessed to what you claim, just sell your assets and GTFO out this toxic ecosystem and let us, delusional idiots, keep supporting this game.
The beauty of Web3 is that you can freely exit once you don't wanna support the platform anymore. I would love to see some trad games do the same thing...
lol obviously delusional and ignoring facts. This is the type of idiots this game attracts apparently 😆
How sad.
@yabapmatt You cutting the reward from all the possible options. And want $200k from DAO to create 2 promo cards. Here people are not earning $100 monthly even after investing $20k but you want 200k USD for 2 promo cards.
Stop this nonsense, nobody buys gonna those 2 promo cards all are leaving this shit game.
Heya @yabapmatt ,
I voted yes on this but it doesn't seem it will pass...
If the DAO doesn't provide the funds and the team does the sale directly will the DEC and voucher costs remain the same or will there be any changes to how the promos will be purchasable? Will vouchers still be accepted for payment?
Gold Foil chance are 4% for promo cards?
Ah thanks, I forgot that! Yes it will be 4% GF chance. I will update the proposal.
so 7,187.5 vouchers for the Rare and 6,875 for the Legendary?
Hmmm...
Does pricing makes sense? The rare card is more expensive than the legendary card O.o (in vouchers)
I would also add that the price of the cards in vouchers seems like a little expensive. Almost is not worth using vouchers for this.
also, why include DECB? decb is already burned theres no need to burn it again. Seems like a waste.
Vouchers are valued at 50 DEC each, which is roughly equal to the current market price. For some players that may be worth it and some not. I believe that many players have excess Vouchers that they would prefer to spend on a promotion like this than sell on the market, but if not, then that just means more DEC will be burned, which is fine.
Also, the purpose of DEC-B was that it can be used in place of DEC any time DEC tokens will be burned. Players took a large opportunity cost converting DEC to non-transferrable DEC-B when the token needed support during the bear market, and it's important that there are opportunities to take advantage of that.
Oh, God... $200k to operate a promotion in a well-established community?
I think it's pretty clear in the proposal that it does not cost $200k to operate the promotion. This proposal is just giving token holders a choice between two options: (1) The company sells promo cards as normal; or (2) The DAO pays the company to forego the revenue opportunity of selling the promo cards so that tokens spent will be burned and provide value to the SPS token.
From the company's perspective, we will probably end up with more money if this proposal fails and we just do a normal promo card sale as I expect that will bring in far more than $200k. But from the perspective of the ecosystem over the long term I feel it would be better to have the DAO pay the company and have the value go to the SPS token, which is why it's being proposed. It's completely up to the token holders though and I do not plan to vote myself or try to sway players' opinions in any way.
remind me, how much did yall make from Zyerial? so no I dont think the company would do better if they just sold the promo as is...
If I remember correctly, Zyriel brought in about $100k. In this case there are 2 promo cards for sale, plus as much as $200k in other prizes (including leaderboard prizes), plus a better overall crypto market. Either way, we'll find out soon enough!
Fair enough. That is true, the overall crypto market does look considerably better than it did back during Zyriel so who knows. Is this one of those times yall would rather have stables from the dao and let us horde the sps/dec/vouchers for another day so yall dont have to sell them to pay for stuff?
A few Qs...
RE: 4 - it's not what I am looking for, it's what most of the crypto community you want to capture wants. Tokens get airdropped, then they get dumped. Boohoo. It still works though. If you can't sell them, no-one will care. You tried it with soulbound cards? Oh good - and how did that work out? Seen a big uptick in players?
Well, we also have all of the airdrop cards that are given out for free to players who hold Rebellion cards and packs through the conflicts, so we do that too. Just airdropping stuff won't bring in new people though, we need good marketing and promotion for that, which is our focus for later this year after we improve the product and onboarding experience to be able to capitalize on that marketing and promotion.
That's getting a little off topic for this event though. This is just meant to be a cool little thing to do around the halving and to help generate some much needed funds for the company so that we can continue to improve the product and then begin doing marketing and promotion to get new players in the future.
"given out for free." How can you be so comfortable saying this under your own name lol? Did it not occur to you to use a sock puppet account to say stuff like this? Do tell me what is "free" about having to buy battle mage wagons to earn the airdrops (which if CL is anything to go buy won't hold much value long term anyway)?
easy there buddy. you don't have to get nasty man.
Actually sometimes you do, because when you're "nice" all the time and there are no results a fire needs to be lit, the stick needs to come out. And after 3-years of constantly poor decisions and being "nice" something needs to change. Would it be "nicer" to "if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all"? And just leave? Or would a good leader not care how something is said and just be happy it was? Put your ego and hurt feelings aside and take the feedback.
People are getting fed up and that's when they revolt against the government that did not/could not listen. Yet my earnest hope is that Splinterlands can listen. Stop with all the gimmicks. The multiple rulesets. The useless new cards (at least for now) the market is fully saturated and all SL is doing is alienating their existing base.
@radcakes91 you’re absolutely correct. And the sad thing here is Matt and aggro really don’t care. Their mindset is “take it or leave it”. And it’s not even a sound or logical decisions. Never once did they said that this proposal was good for the game. Only that they intend to raise money. Which is why they don’t care if it is approved or not. I want all of you to let that logic sink in and ask yourself “why make a proposal, that you don’t care if it passes or not?” When you come to the scary conclusion you’ll realize it is time to abandon this game or make a proposal to remove Matt and aggro. They’re not trying to improve the game they’re just trying to make more money instead of “investing” to make the game better.
That's demonstrably untrue. The only reason we do any of this and deal with all of the stress day in and day out for little pay is because we care about the people involved.
The proposal allows the token holders to choose between two different options - each with pros and cons. Neither option is bad, in my opinion, so I'm happy to go with whichever one the token holders want. Do you suggest that we not provide options via the proposal system in the future?
Aggroed is running Invennium now so he's not directly involved with Splinterlands, however if you would prefer to have someone else run Splinterlands then absolutely you should submit a proposal. If the majority of token holders want someone else to run the company then I would happily step down.
I'm curious, how do you propose that we "invest" in making the game better without making any money?
For the record, I don't agree with that guy's comments at all.
However I do think you need some advisors, because marketing isn't just paying for google ads, it is things like this proposal. It might be 100% great idea. But it LOOKS terrible which is partly the way these ideas are marketed.
I do also think you need to listen to the people "giving you shit" a bit more, even though 90% might be talking out their butts, the 10% is where you will find the answers to turn the ship around. The echo chamber of supporters are good for morale, but they cheered you all the way down here into the depths of nearly going bankrupt.
So as a successful businessman myself I would recommend partnerships & advisors to give you more help (free help) it's OK to be out of your depth but not if you don't see it. Don't take that the wrong way as you mostly doing a good job but you are not meant to be doing everything yourself like coding, running a company, and answering comments on here. Genuine advice, you need to hire better, and partner better, and do less.
Good luck!
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
Yes, my entire goal has been to get better people than me to do most of these things. I've succeeded so far with coding and running the servers (which I don't do at all anymore) but there are still a lot of areas in which we need help. Free or very cheap help that is high quality is hard to find and we certainly don't have the resources to hire good people for things like running the company and marketing/communication, so I'm trying to do the best I can with what I have.
I also agree about listening to players. I try to engage with players on a regular basis, and most of the time it's because they disagree with something we're doing. I am very aware of the fact that I don't have all the answers (or even most of the answers) and am very open to everyone's ideas.
I know it's hard to hear hate for projects you do but telling players "taking shit from ppl like you" is not professional sounding (although some of them deserves it.)
I also agree with this proposal since it's a fun little thing. Also, them saying "And the sad thing here is Matt and aggro really don’t care." after seeing your responses, I actually think as well. But from my perspective, it's not that you don't care about the game. It's more like, "I don't care if you like this proposal to pass or fail" since like you said, there are backup ways to enjoy the halving event such as selling packs or probably airdropping it.
I'm excited to see this past but if it doesn't, the game won't change as well and we'll just keep playing the same game and same cards. So, I also don't care if they pass it or not. Hoping the majority do but not a big deal if it didn't.
You don’t make money, at first. That’s the same “investment” you’ve been asking of your users. Please name one asset released that’s actually retained or increased in value? Every asset has been depreciating and is constantly diluted. DEC? That’s all I can think of. Sps down, card value down, vouchers down, land down, licenses down, that silly game “soulkeep” like a government that is run inefficiently and keeps asking for more taxes each year.
What was it? Like 8 million chaos legion packs were sold. Let’s assume $2 per pack after discounts and promos. $16m that’s a lot of money to burn through in two years?
I think if you really cared you would care about the route taken as it should be in the best interest of those people you claim to care about. If there isn’t a best way then you’re right, why are we even bothering to do it? Voting can be great but I don’t want to go to a doctor and the doctor asks all the patients to vote on what type of surgery I should have. You’re the expert, make the recommendation and believe in it.
It's so funny seeing people who never ran their own company complaining over not enough free stuff given to them... The only way to run a company is to be ready for all outcomes. If you don't want to participate in the game anymore, feel free to leave. They don't owe you anything. And they gave you a way to exit. That's 100x better than scams from ATVI or EA :(
lol against your stupidity shows. As never once was anything free being asked for. Instead it was criticism on how poorly things are run. A good leader can listen to the criticism. Idiots like you, well you’re not worth the time 🤡
We spent thousands of dollars on cards to earn tradable rewards and then you decided to move the goalposts and make our rewards worthless. Would we have spent that money had we known such changes were ahead? Oh and then you made it so we either have to buy and hold at least about $1000 - $2000 worth of SPS - which like everything outside the top 10 in crypto is an insanely risky volatile asset which could easily go to zero eventually - or spend a dollar or two renting it from others to get said rewards, and then you also sell us energy to be allowed to "earn" more of these worthless cards? Do you have any idea how much of a scam this game sounds like to anyone not already immersed in the ecosystem who loves the game?
"Hey Barry, come try this game, spend a few thousand dollars on cards and hope you can sell them before they get rotated out of modern when their value will drop like 80%, oh sorry did I not say, yeah you also have to spend another thousand or two on this sh__coin to actually earn any rewards with them... oh yeah sorry you have to buy energy to play more than 50 games too... oh sorry Barry did I not say, yeah your rewards are absolutely worthless too apart from a couple of sh__coin pennies you might earn after winning about 10 battles, but it's ok, the team will give you a chance to earn some card prizes if you literally burn some of your own money."
And all this because you refused to get rid of the anon bots. If you fixed that one simple thing you wouldn't have had to make all these game wrecking changes that have driven a hug percentage of your players away and deter any new players from joining the game. But hey, you'll make another windfall of cash from the next line of crypto casino suckers that pile in so who can blame you. Honestly though, the game is so good, if you'd built a fair and honest economy you could have made more than what you've made in the long run anyway because probably 100x as many people would want to play it.
/1/ Because they want to sell the promo cards for the same price they charged for Zyriel, but hardly anyone bought that cos it was a ripoff. So they've done some hocus pocus to make it seem like they're selling the cards for $31 while ensuring they get as much profit as if they sold them for double that price, but getting the funds from the DAO instead lol.
/4/ Yes. The game is a massive ripoff owing to the team's frankly idiotic position on multi accounting bots, meaning the value of ordinary players assets suffers a near constant drain, and it deserves to fail thanks to the way it keeps gut-punching existing human players, making changes to ensure the value of old cards gets destroyed because they want existing players to keep being suckers buying new sets. Bought loads of Alpha, Beta or Untamed cards to play wild in the past? F U! You're getting nothing but merits potions and soulbound cards! Naturally the same will happen to CL and Rebellion too in a year or two too!
I am #264 on the voucher richlist and don't have enough for either of these cards, never mind both, so the pricing of the cards seems more of a burden than an opportunity.
Can these promo cards be used for Conflicts? ;-)
I understand some of the comments in this post. The cool thing is this will either pass or fail as a DAO vote. If it fails, then its not a big problem for the company as they will get all the revenues. If it passes, then the DAO is adding value to the game if this is successful (by successful, I think $400k in total sales).
As a player I love this, I can buy exactly what I want (or don't buy anything if don't want to), and I can receive free perks from the lottery and the leaderboard prizes if I do participate. I also love that the card print rates will be exactly what the demand for them is, so if people aren't excited about it then I will own shorter printed cards.
As a DAO voter, I can see that we are taking a chance to spend $200k in non-SPL assets. I look at it like this:
If we hit $400k in sales, then we retired $400k in assets for $200k - which should lead to most likely to a) reduction in supply of DEC-B and vouchers and b) a need to buy SPS to get the DEC since we're pretty much in balance.
If we do $200k in sales, then we would've probably rather had the money flow to the team directly without DEC-B or vouchers.
I personally think this is worth taking a chance on, because our risk is somewhat mitigated since we want to see the team do well anyways. I do think we will easily do $200k in sales, and the chance that we hit it out of the park and do $400k is realistic if the 2 cards are good.
There's also one more reason why I'm ok with taking a chance. We know the team plans on doing 5 total of these over the course of the year. Its better to find out what will work and what doesn't, rather than just having us fight/debate/complain/etc for each and every one of them.
Put another way, if it works well, then we have a good model for the next 4. If not, then we probably overpaid by a slight amount by taking the chance.
As I said though, the good thing is that this vote can pass or fail and its not a problem, its really what we want to do as the DAO. And as a player, I'm loving the way its set up!
You don't want to support the SPS listing but want to support this nonsense. 200k USD for just creating 2 promo cards. Trust me if those cards come into the shop, only 5% of people will buy them. They won't even earn $10k from those promo sales. All are leaving this game, selling their assets in loss. Who would buy those promo cards?
So your point is that we shouldn't do this because "All are leaving this game"? What would be your plan for the DAO funds? Do a give away for all remaining players?
As I understand, DAO funds are there for the player experience. A new card is better than none at all. To me, it's better to have these kinds of events than just be stagnant for half a year waiting for the new pack to release.
Also, the price is not as much for the remaining players, which is good in my opinion. I think less people would buy this if it's a promo card worth $300 each like the Neutral summoner but $31 and $3 for each as commemorative pieces? I think it's a good idea.
I for sure will buy this one regardless if it's a strong card or not.
ok thanks for the input. We will see if $10k is in fact the right sales number or not. I think you're a bit low, but the great thing is we will find out soon enough either way :)
And I also recommend that you vote too. Nothing wrong with everyone voting for what they think is best.
I actually agree with you. In any investment, there's a risk. The only problem I see in this is that there's too many "IFs". I also don't have the information on what percentage and chance we could get to get the $200k to break even.
HOWEVER, I think it's good to consider this. I hope they had some sort of breakdown why they would need 200k for two cards. This kind of prices each at $100k in which, say $20k was used for the artwork, then maybe DAO can just outsource the artwork to someone for $2k each saving $36k in advance.
I agree there are a lot of "ifs". That's part of why I support it, because I'd like to get some of the "ifs" determined, we do have 4 more promo card events coming in the future too. Thus I'd like to see a real life example of how this works.
On the breakdown, I think its purely revenue for the team. Obviously they spend money to make the card and implement it, but its done by people already on their payroll. So there is no incremental costs per se, but there are expectations of revenues they need for ALL THEIR employees to be paid (and other expenses like rent, electric, servers, etc).
So this is really a choice of whether the DAO wants to find out if this will work and be a good use of our $200k in non-SPL funds (ie does it generate a lot more assets burned?) or would it be best to let the team just sell the cards for DEC/Credits and get all the revenue.
Either way it will happen though, the question is can the DAO get a bang for its buck or not.
Thanks for the thoughtful conversation, its great to see here Kona!
I agree. The only similarities I see in this WHOLE article is "$200k seems too much" which I partially agree. The reason why I agree with them is, I think majority of these people, including me, never owned a huge company. Therefore, we don't have a basis if $200k is a big amount for a company or not. For say, a simple restaurant, yeah, that's a big amount but Splinterlands is not a small simple restaurant. It's an international corporation with worldwide playerbase as its audience.
Majority also probably don't know how DAO has right now (including me again). So, say DAO only has $1M in funds, then yeah, $200k is a bit high since it's 1/5 of the company funds or 20% of their entire fortune. HOWEVER, say the company has $10M in funds, then $200k is 2% of company funds which is miniscule for an "experiment" such as this.
Both my examples above are also "ifs" but personally, I do want this to proceed since I want to have some memory for this halving event. This would be my first halving event and I am excited about it and since Splinterlands is the reason why I got into crypto, I'd like to have a card commemorated for it.
I hope there's at least the Halving ability on both cards. Halfling Alchemist's lore is funny and knowing that it had the "Halving" ability because it was a "Halving event promo card" makes it even better. Lastly, Halving happens once every 4 years so splurging on this (say 200k was really expensive for the cost) is actually fine for me.
You make good points and I like your thinking.
In the case of the DAO its roughly $10m in value. But most of that is in SPL assets, so its a bit misleading.
As Matt said in the post this $200k would represent about 8% of the total non SPL assets. So that would mean we have about $2.5m in non SPS assets, and we would be spending $200k of the $2.5m.
As for the halving ability, I also hope we have that or at least a variation on it, like a halving of health or speed. That would be fun and cool too.
I guess we'll see what they do on the card, but I agree they should make it special!
And thank you as well for the civil and constructive conversation Kona, its great to hear your thoughts! :)
If $200k is about 8% of the company's non-spl asset, and assuming, at worst case, people only bought like 50k out of 200k so 1/4 of it, then the expense is like 6% of the company asset. For a commemoration event, that's good enough and was actually lower than what I was expecting.
Spending 6% for a trial run for a project is decent. Even if at worst, NO ONE buy anything for this, it would not make the company go under or be on the red so I think it's worth a shot. At best, company breaks even so that's a free test run for the next 4 projects. Of course, for the best best, profit.
Based on that, I see that there's little to no danger doing this side project and it also gives a good view for future projects, like making a bottom line or an idea to use for the next 4 projects.
Oh, and thank you as well for being cool with the questions and the new information and have a nice day.
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I'm all for this minus the Splinterlands team trying to put up so called 100k in their own assets and getting paid for it instantly. Which for whatever reason ALWAYS seems to be the case. I don't see us burning 200k worth of value and instead just creating yet more inflation with this current setup.
I think its ok to vote no on it too. I don't mind seeing if it works as Matt thinks it will. At the same time I'm also happy to see the team get all the sales in DEC and Credits for the team needs (without the extra prizes).
Sounds like a good exchange of value. After a long time I have a use case for the VOUCHERs. The only disappointment was the VOUCHERs being valued far less than other places (20O DEC instead of 50 DEC of this proposal). On the positive side of things, this will lead to more VOUCHERs burned.
A DEC & Voucher burning event with prizes is meant to reduce the inflation of these 2 things.
We also have the possibility if SPS value greatly increases, people burning SPS will create a large inflation of DEC that the game might not be able to handle destroying it.
I feel like this event is meant to approach the subject in a conservative way but it is not doing that to some extent. Are we going to create burning events every year? I mean I'm not saying that's not the answer or part of the answer, maybe it is but can we take a step back for a minute?
What if we do something else to hedge against a giant sudden DEC inflation. What if we make DEC useable outside of the game in the developing world to pay for phone minutes, utilities, etc..
There are projects that do this. You're not going through the front door and competing with big guys in the 1st world like Paypal, Venmo, GPay, etc., you have to go through the backdoor, the opposite direction in the developing world.
I mean if DEC is a product backed stable coin then that's the best entry point argument with vendors in the developing world to accept it as a stable form of payment.
Whatever developers we hire to get the validator nodes up and running let's get them afterwards working on this goal, whatever it takes, maybe a phone to phone payment app or partnerships we have to make with exchanges in the developing world,... make DEC useable outside of the game in the developing world. That would somewhat relieve this pressure of an algebra equation you are constantly trying to do with these game tokens.
What if SPS whales that decide to burn their SPS for DEC and cash out in a bull run could have a different avenue to dump outside of the game using DEX's and CEX's that the developing world would buy and then turn around and spend that on the real world consumer economy? Now it's floating around outside of the game, it escaped the Matrix, now you got options.
nope.
There are no more card burns planned ?
no, on the contrary, even more cards are being put into circulation 😂
I was initially against spending even more money from the DAO (Apparently to spend it on a Tier 1 exchange is an heresy - God forbid someone knows us - but we can spend * every week * a quarter million dollars on financing Steem Monsters projects like burn events or validators; I guess that the DAO will next spend 3 million USD on "hire Steem Monsters" to make the next expansion or something? This last week has been definitely weird around here)
But reading the comments and some Matt points I actually think this is a decent proposal that as @davemccoy says will clear a lot of discussion for future events, will teach us what works and what don't, and the money will be recovered with a -20%/+20% deviation which is fine.
Voting yea here.
Regardless of the outcome, it still feels like we are going in circles.
Running the game has too high of a cost -> short runway makes sales priority -> card supply further gets inflated -> Players see in-game asset values go down -> fewer reasons for spending money on the game -> more sales/dao money needed to keep going -> asset prices go down more -> ...
I don't see how any of it will get new players into the ecosystem which after making sure things keep running should be the main priority. Oversupply in cards is one of the big issues. I hope there will be a requirement to burn a similar type card to unlock Soulbound reward cards so at least the supply doesn't inflate further with those. Bringing back some kind of collection power requirements at least in Wild would also help the demand toward cards.
This is correct, and that's the exact situation I came in to address in September. The first step was to significantly decrease expenses, which was done, and which significantly increased the runway and made us much less dependent on sales. This allowed us to give half of all Rebellion revenue to the DAO and to forego selling an additional mini-set on top of it. Instead, we should be fine just doing a few promo card sales, which is massively less asset inflation than we have had to do in the past before these changes.
Maybe you don't listen to the town halls, but getting new players into the ecosystem is literally our main priority for this year. It does take time though, and it costs money, which I am trying my best to get with as little asset dilution as possible.
A proposta é boa, vou votar favorável, porém vejo como tolisse queimar tokens. Não sou fã de queimas de tokens.
Love this. The halvening is bigger than the Olympics at this point. I bought a commemorative coke bottle during the 2000 Sydney Olympics and left it in a cupboard. It burst, and we got ants. This is much better.
🤣
😂
guys 200k is a lot of money...i'm really skeptical about it
At this point, every proposal just serves to alienate more people and cause them to leave. At the same time, only a small amount of the value in the DAO is accessible to the DAO and it shouldn't all be going to pay the team for events like this.
How about you just burn everything over $200k that comes in and take the rest as income? I know it would burn less but it would leave the DAO funds in tact and it would not alienate anyone who see this as the company being greedy.
Finally, there should really be card burning included in this.
Can we please stop inflating the card supply??? Why is there no card burn to balance this new inflation? @yabapmatt you torpedoed my card burning proposal last year by telling everyone you wanted to do a card burning event instead. Then you put the proposal out there for the card burning event without a guaranteed prize so it got voted down. You said you were coming back with promo cards as guaranteed prizes but suddenly there is no card burning. The game has too many cards. They are the biggest asset in the game by far and it chases more people away every time they go lower.
We need to stop looking ahead to some magic time in the future when we have millions of players and fully utilized land and instead deal with the game and economy we have now. And that means dealing with an economy that has way too many cards for the player base. Burn the cards. If cards start going up, DEC and SPS will follow but SPS isn't going to go up with the biggest asset in the game keeps tanking.
HERE ARE SOME CALCULATIONS:
Compare to Zyriel/Mantaroth rougly arounnd 5000 total copies for the legendary card.
5000 x $31,250 = $156250
Compared to Grimbardun Smith 48000 total copies for the rare card:
48000 x $3.125 = $150000
So roughly it would come down to $300.000 in revenue to the company.
We don't know exactly how the numbers will turn out. But based on this calculation I vote yes!
Considering that USD to BTC is around 1:1000, this means the Rare promo is around $3 and the legendary is around $31. I like the price idea as well. It gives more commemorative reason for the price.
Hope this would pass.
That's a lot of benjamins. I don't think the event justifies the price asked from DAO.
$PIZZA slices delivered:
@konaqua(1/5) tipped @davemccoy
Is there any chance we can get the Rare changed from 3,125k DEC to 312.5 DEC so more people will participate in the event? Right now the Rare costs more than the Legendary.
Why does every proposal for this end up feeling like we are bailing out Splinterlands assets of land, packs etc all the time?
I rather see one single proposal to paid the company to create the cards and the burning even and then add a 2nd for the land, packs etc. and a third for rift watcher packs.
Or better yet
Update the DAO proposal system to allow for more than a yes or no option and instead the ability to vote on option A, option B, option C or downvote the entire thing like we see with just about every other defi proposal system. The current system of just yes or no feels dated and seems to be causing issues for getting any real movement because there's always so much to agree to.
$200,000 can achieve a lot more in developing countries like India etc to promote hive.
Thank you for participating in SPS DAO Governance @splinterlands!
You can place or monitor SPS Stake Weighted votes for and against this proposal at the link below:
Link to this Pre-Proposal
Updated At: 2024-03-25 06:38 UTC
If the propasal fails, and the DAO will not fund the company, will it still be possible to participate in the event with vouchers? and if vouchers will still be able to be used as payment, what will happen to them. Will they be burned or will the company pocket them in the same way as with the DEC?
📢The house is on fire🏃♀, yet we talk of side shows, again, flames blazing behind us.
Wait, did you say fire💥? Yes, it's been slowly kindling for a couple years now.
We talked about this problem. Remember? Multiple town halls? Well anyway, the burn rate has accelerated. It is raging now, as evidenced by the daily decline of players and asset values, despite the Bull.
The house is on fire🏃♀, yet we continue to chatter over proposals and haphazardly hose resources towards less important tasks, more cards, more rule sets, economy manipulations, more game changes, burnings, promos, side show events and even wagons.
📢THE HOUSE IS still ON FIRE.
IMO, and many others, the primary problem and the number one priority is to reduce the barriers to entry and retention. Allocate your time, attention and resources to diagnosing those barriers and transform them into welcoming and clear onboarding oracles. P E R I O D
There are innumerous barriers to entry and retention generated from unclear and confusing processes. Every click someone has to make to simply give you their money to play the game makes it exponentially more likely that they will click out. Show them super clearly where to deposit and play. Confusion is not rewarding.
Stop the game changes and economy manipulations (all good intentioned but end up creating more problems and frustrating players and creating MORE confusion). Build trust. Focus on this one very important thing. Teaching this world to another. The player experience. Provide clarity and ease of getting into the game and understanding how to play, use crypto wallet key chain, swap assets etc. Not additional game changes, but instructions for the current game so the user knows what they are doing, where and how to do it. YOU HAVE NO OTHER PRIORITY. NONE.
Thanks for reading my opinions on the state of SL. One final note, Matt or someone should be an active member within the most powerful and largest crypto gamer group, Neo Tokyo. Hopefully you already are, but if not, get on it. If you don't like them for some reason, get over it. Remember, the house is on FIRE.
UPDATED after reading through 500 comments:
And finally, I am changing my vote from no to yes:
done
📢The house is on fire🏃♀, yet we talk of side shows.
Wait, did you say fire💥? Yes, it's been slowly kindling for a couple years now. We talked about this problem. Remember? Multiple town halls? Well anyway, the burn rate has accelerated. It is raging now, as evidenced by the daily decline of players and asset values, despite the Bull.
The house is on fire🏃♀, yet we continue to chatter over proposals and haphazardly hose resources towards less important tasks, more cards, more rule sets, economy manipulations, more game changes, burnings, promos, side show events and even wagons.
📢THE HOUSE IS still ON FIRE.
IMO, and many others, the primary problem and the number one priority is to reduce the barriers to entry and retention. Allocate your time, attention and resources to diagnosing those barriers and transform them into welcoming and clear onboarding oracles. P E R I O D
There are innumerous barriers to entry and retention generated from unclear and confusing processes. Every click someone has to make to simply give you their money to play the game makes it exponentially more likely that they will click out. Show them super clearly where to deposit and play. Confusion is not rewarding.
Stop the game changes and economy manipulations (all good intentioned but end up creating more problems and frustrating players and creating MORE confusion). Build trust. Focus on this one very important thing. Teaching this world to another. The player experience. Provide clarity and ease of getting into the game and understanding how to play, use crypto wallet key chain, swap assets etc. Not additional game changes, but instructions for the current game so the user knows what they are doing, where and how to do it. NO OTHER PRIORITY. NONE.
Thanks for reading my opinions on the state of SL. One final note, Matt or someone should be an active member within the most powerful and largest crypto gamer group, Neo Tokyo. Hopefully you already are, but if not, get on it. If you don't like them for some reason, get over it. Remember, the house is on FIRE.
UPDATED after reading through 500 comments:
And finally, I am changing my vote from no to yes:
done