SPS Governance Proposal - Adjust Rewards Based on Card Level

A proposal is being put forth to a vote of all staked SPS token holders to adjust the amount of reward shares awarded in ranked battles based on the level of cards used by the winning player in the battle.

The goal of this change is to encourage players to own and/or rent higher level cards and encourage combining cards by reducing the amount of reward shares earned by cards used in battles that are below the intended levels for each league.

Initially the concept of collection power was introduced in an attempt to ensure that players would need the appropriate level cards in order to participate in higher leagues; however, that system was relatively easy to work around and we are still seeing many players that are able to earn full rewards in higher leagues using low level cards.

With the recent changes to the ranked reward system, we now have the tools to better achieve this goal by limiting rewards based on the cards actually used in the battles rather than cards simply sitting in players' collections.

The table below details the proposed minimum level of cards of each rarity required to earn full rewards at each league.

LeagueCommonRareEpicLegendary
Bronze1111
Silver3221
Gold5432
Diamond8653
ChampionMAXMAXMAXMAX

With this change, the reward shares calculation for each ranked battle win will be adjusted by the average of the level of each card used by the winning team in the battle compared to the minimum reward level for that card and for the player's current league as indicated in the table above.

There are a few important things to note about this proposed change:

  1. Any level of card is still able to be played in all leagues, it's just that cards played below the minimum level for the rarity and league will reduce the number of reward shares earned for that battle
  2. Cards played above the minimum level for the rarity and league will not increase the rewards that can be earned, nor will they be able to "make up" for reductions from other cards that are below the minimum level
  3. The level of card used will be for the actual card and not based on summoner level. For example, if a player is using a level 1 Obsidian and a level 5 Goblin Psychic then the Goblin Psychic will still be counted as a level 5 card for the reward shares calculation
  4. Starter cards will count as level 0

The following examples illustrate how the proposed change would affect reward shares earned under different scenarios:

Example 1

A player in Silver league wins a ranked battle with the following cards:

  • Level 5 Common
  • Level 1 Common
  • Level 1 Rare
  • Level 1 Legendary

The reward shares earned by this player will be roughly 70% of the total that they could have earned had they used higher level cards which is calculated as follows:

Example 2

A player in Gold league wins a ranked battle with the following cards:

  • Starter Common
  • Level 1 Common
  • Level 1 Rare
  • Level 1 Rare
  • Level 1 Epic

The reward shares earned by this player will be roughly 20% of the total that they could have earned had they used higher level cards which is calculated as follows:


Ultimately, the Splinterlands team believes that this change will go a long way towards preventing some of the workarounds that some players are using in order to earn large amounts of rewards with cheap, low-level cards and should help encourage more card combining and provide more value to owning and renting higher level cards going forward.



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I don't know. To me it just seems like yet another market manipulation in favor of early adopters at the expense of new players. I can't see how this trend will lead to anything but a closed silo of faithful players, inaccessible and unattractive to anybody not currently well invested.

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That's ONLY if you are thinking of wild format... once Untamed gets bumped out of modern int0 wild, any new player will be able to cycle in using current edition cards. This has nothing to do with early adaptors vs. new players.

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Oh cool. Then just make this apply only to modern.

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This has EVERYTHING to do with early adopters vs new players.

Every rule that's changed ends up benefiting early adopters who, by sheer luck, purchased lots of 0.01$ cards that are now worth 250$ each. They can bulldoze their way by purchasing everything that's released and leveling everything to max just by selling 2 or 3 Llamas that they're hiding under their sleeves for the last 2 years.

While new players have to either bring 10k USD to the game, or be relegated to bronze rewards even if they're actually playing the game better (eg with more skill) than old players.

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Not by luck always they recognized the potential and waited year then yes great returns as they shoudl

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I think you can't build a system that incentivizes increased ownership, leveling, etc... without also rewarding early adopters.

The modern/wild format goes a long way to help even the playing field for new players though. Each new edition release gives players a new shot to have the exact same change/buying power as long as they stay invested (which is the behavior we want to encourage).

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The issue isn't so much about rewarding early adopters but hurting new players. A system such as this raises the stakes for new players forcing them to pay more in order to play. The end result is that they won't play.

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It doesn't force them to pay more to play - it forces them to pay more to earn more.

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(Edited)

That would be fine if the game wasn't still widely promoted as #playtoearn. The beginning levels are really competitive already. The easy way out is to rent. There is already a market manipulation in place which requires a new player to rent or buy in order to earn anything. There is another market manipulation in place that requires a player to rent for 2 days in order to rent any card. The end result is that this is a PAY-to-earn system and we're asking new players to pay a lot.

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Get a archmage let it go for 6 days enjoy diamond

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Don't you see the mistake? You recommend a bot, but the game should be so much fun that you want to play it yourself. a game that isn't worth playing will die! the balance between play and investment is completely out of whack. would you buy stock in a game developer who only makes crap games that no one wants to play?

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ee the mistake? You recommend a bot, but the game should be so much fun that you want to play it yourself. a game that isn't worth playing will die! the balance between play and investment is completely out of whack. would you buy stock in a game developer who only makes crap games that no one wants to play?

Not a mistake why not bot when you cant play

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Play to Earn doesn't mean Play for Free, or Earn the same regardless of what you pay.

We're asking new players to Pay a Lot to Earn a Lot - that seems fine to me.

This game has always said that they want to be a blend of Invest more to earn more + More skill to earn more - not one or the other.

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(Edited)

Yeah, it seems to be 90-10 split in favor of paying more vs skill.

ETA: this change seems to be more of an admonishment of skill rather than a reward for investment. That's just my perception.

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Yeah - I think I'd agree with that assessment, though I don't know if it's the intention.

Sometimes to squash exploits you squash honest people doing honest things in the process.

Accounts are flooding battles with low level cards in an unskilled way and that might be the bigger impact than the accounts that are using low level cards to higher skilled impact.

The good news is that a decrease in rewards on an individual battle that you're winning may still work out in a players favor - because increase in rating is a bigger lever on increased rewards than most other things in the game.

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If you have this skill you should be able to wipe the floor with my account when its botted when i cant play. someone please warn me if anyone is passing proposal to basically destroy my earnings which go into my project which will be much more beneficial to new players. It takes moeny to do these things and I need to dump my in vestment if i can no longer accomplish what Im trying to do and it actually is for new players and expanding the game so not all ppl who bot with not shit accounts are bad. You should be able to compete with them if your good

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Or grind it out the free way harder now but AB days much easier

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They will if the rewards are worth it. I borrowed money not that i Need to but its more efficient for my ROI. I take risk maybe if ppl did that they could have a higher level deck and compete. There are ppl that can kick my ass with a lower level deck when its botted. So maybe need a bit more practice or buy a bot to so you play while your not able to but I need to this is what i do.

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We get rewarded
with the node drop , glx drop as older player slike me tend to hhave more sps giving more drops and nodes

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Early adopters should still be rewarded and so should u

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(Edited)

Yes early adopters should be rewarded but they should be rewarded through success of the product not through market manipulation.

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Agree but also if there are drops based on assets that should be fine bc they held those assets thereis a opp cost for me to put over 100K in and i hsould get a return.

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to get a competitive account use the resources buy a bot u can get a b for 200 ish my b took me in diamond 1 and is playing there now sucking in chests. I did spend 30K on cards for it. So i think bots that havre a x spend or cardd level should never be penalized

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I think if your bot can't beat a real player using lower level cards, you're not being penalized, you're just losing. And honestly, you kind of deserve it.

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So the starter card penalty would be lifted as it's already included in that level calculation?

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(Edited)

Here's the problem I see:

Right now we are losing players because they feel the game decision makers (big players and devs) don't really care about the new and/or smaller players.

Changes like this are probably ok, but it seems to me like we want to do everything BUT think about what the new player faces. For instance:

  1. First and most importantly, a new player has to face over 100k automated bots that have been programmed to have the perfect teams in the bronze and silver levels for each of our rulesets and mana caps. Unless a person has some insight as to some work arounds, they simply have no fun getting their brains beat in day in and day out.

  2. Secondly, these automated bots ONLY EXIST because they get FREE cards to play. These aren't new accounts, these are accounts that have been opened for many months (and in some cases years), but THEY DON'T HAVE TO OWN/RENT THE CARDS that they play. They simply rent the key cards necessary to milk the system, and do it by relying heavily on the free cards to do so.

In other words, if you took away the starter cards for all accounts after an introductory period, then a substantial portion of those 100K+ accounts would either 1) cease to exist or 2) have to rent/own.

These 2 things affect the game for new players in the following ways:

Gameplay at the low level is not fun, and in order to rise above this unnecessary hurdle a player must decide to spend many hundreds of dollars to build an adequate deck. So enabling these 100k bots to have FREE CARDS to play and stomp in the lower leagues, not only ruins the small player experience, it take a massive amount of their earnings (see below).

Because a bronze and silver player must share their earnings with these 100k+ accounts, their earnings have be destroyed. I would suggest that there is probably 50 to 100 bots for each human in those leagues. This is a massive hit to the "little guy's" earnings from playing. Just like larger players think large players should make their fair share, little players feel the same too. The same frustration is applicable.

For a game that suggests (rightly) that you should own your assets to earn from the game, it seems like this concept is being lost when it comes to the little guy. It seems like little players don't matter. While I know better and know that the DEVs do care, the appearance is terrible.

I have made this point before and I can tell you the first reaction: The nerfs put in already have made the bots not use the starter cards since they don't earn on them. If this were true, which isn't, then removing the starter cards would have no negative impact. In other words, what is the point of having them after an introductory period?

Summary

While I like the game trying to always improve the way in which rewards are given out, I HATE when the game neglects a segment of our community. If someone has been here for more than an introductory period, they should own or rent the cards they play. PERIOD.

While people can debate if my solution would work or not relative to chasing away the bots, one thing is clear. All changes to rewards at this point mean nothing to the little players, they will continue to feel that they stand no chance and aren't listened to as long as their competition gets FREE CARDS to both steal their rewards and beat the shit out of them.

I love this game, I think the team truly cares about everyone. But I think they've lost touch with what the smaller players feel and should put much more thought into this issue. The community was built for all size players, and I don't think its possible to grow much larger without getting back to those roots.

Please help people and not bots.

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Yes, the new player experience is 100% an area that needs a lot of focus and we're currently looking at the data on starter cards and how we can address the issues there.

That's all completely separate from this particular proposed change though. This is just about making sure that players to own or rent the appropriate assets in order to be able to earn the rewards for them.

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For new player experience, have you considered creating a ghost league with progression to earn new ghost cards the more you play the game? This will allow new players to really experience the game for what it is than worrying about how much money they should spend to compete in ranked games? Of course ghost league will not earn you anything.

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This is already possible to some degree, I believe. If you don't buy a Summoner's Spellbook, you can play the game, but you won't earn rewards.

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the ghost league will allow you to use max level cards unlike in the ranked league ghost cards, you can only use level 1. There should still be progression in this league to earn the max level ghost cards or other ghost cards on diff levels. This is the only way majority of players can experience the game to its fullest potential.

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Ok, that's an interesting idea. And I think it would be beneficial for new players because the gameplay is more entertaining at higher levels and they can only experience the lower leagues in ranked battles and may think the game isn't fun at all.

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Where are the rewards coming from sure as hell not from the current things there would need to be some sort of new way no way sps should be involved rewarding or very small amoutn.

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What about a SPT rental market place where rents are determined by stske left for me to vote with and would need a formula as well as incentives if they rent a lot it will ower cost and be locked for a month. I get my votes i want.

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If I have "No Melee"-Ruleset I need a chicken with Level 1 (By the way: Why can't I use my Max-Level-Chicken at Level 1 - this update was promised a long time ago), so when I put this in future in my team this will cut my rewards ?

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Hoping to help with my project and the many guilds were building for new players and then still have details to work out but having NFty manage it will free up my time to do that thank god for them lol I would be shot if i had to manage it.

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Boting is not bad if you put resources and the intent to use those to help and profit. mine are not exploiting they have between the two average it 30K a piece

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Good @bcarolan639 ... I agree as well... my criticism is about the free cards (starter cards) that enable hundreds of thousands of accounts to take rewards (both SPS and reward cards). If those accounts rented or owned the same cards then I would not have an issue with them.

Good job to help others too, that is very nice to hear!!!

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I actually own a small part of the shares so benefiting all sides is in my interest

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Not the dao own that to but i got in during the seed round luckily but that puts me in a position to see it from all sides

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Im trying I want this shit and GLS to kill it i own stock as well as the dao so I have a large chunk of change in this and the only way to grow is bring in new ppl and help as well as it will make me money not as much but plenty since i just bought the 10K packs or 50000 cards to fund decks to play

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I'm with you. I think that's the plan with the new projects SPL is doing, bringing in more players to increase awareness and attract more gamers. And if they do that then we both will do really well! :)

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Same here not a issue if you spent the money to bot at a high level

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Nice, I like that introductory period thingy.

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(Edited)

Honestly, what needs to happen too is draining the players rating slowly when they don't have the required CP (or Power). That is a huge RED FLAG for people double dipping.
image.png
So if they don't have the 'Power' for that league then each day their rating is reduced, and helps the active players push past them.

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I would support the no hibernation proposal :)
Just seems lazy to do that

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You should 100% be able to earn passive income 24/7 if you invest in the account i have thousands and would need to dump alot of card if something like that were passed bc i dont have all day to play everysecond but i need the moeny to support my projects and with 90-100K plus invested I should be able to get rewards for that. Its called investing

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low power shit bots make it hard but mine plays in diamond 1 all the time so with out those alot of games are hard to find bc ppl cant play all day and work on projects for the game to like i do

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Fair enough bcarloan curious where you are on the SPS DEC proposal now actually

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i voted yes for this one

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Makes sense I kind of like combo packs so hope they all pass :)

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I changed my 580K sps to vote yes so hope it does i read it all wrong before

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Ya i always have combined and i know it makes them worth less right away but winning has made up for that

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I want dec to get slammed down for a bit and i dont care if sps is lower bc of it give me time to accumulate lol once im at like 2-3 million then im ready for these lol I think i voted for SPS rewards bc it will lower the price letting me buy more and against anything that pushes up dec because i neeed a bit to buy at a discount and flipping large numbers of packs to get airdrops is pretty profitable. Tryingto buiild a war chest before shit ineveitabley goes up whe nthe other games come to be fully operationsl

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Im thinking long term for me i can with stand sps hiting a cent id be buying millons as ppl dump it same with cards now im buying a crap load of them no one understands that the demand will come back as long as ppl play the game which seems to be doing fine based on my share value as well in the stock i own to. I have almost no preference bc i win no matter what with all sides of the game. Unless this company dies which with what there doing now doubt it.

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Wow, this is a fabulous idea! This would also even out the rental market. It's not unreasonable to expect players (or bots) to maintain a consistent deck throughout the season in order to reap the leaderboard rewards. That looks plain ugly anyhow, I don't see a downside to ratings decay mechanism.

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I'd say that the problem with removing starters after an introductory period is that it doesn't allow for someone trying the game briefly then coming back at a later point, only to find they can't do anything because the starters have all gone. Even if you did it as the starters going after a certain amount of games it wouldn't take into account various development speeds. I recall when I started losing hand over fist as I tried to figure things out. It was only because I was lent some cards by Matt Clarke and got the odd reward card that I actually started getting anywhere. That's how slow a learner I am. 😆 I'd do better today if I had to start over, but that's a few years of experience behind me.

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(Edited)

I agree that is an issue to consider @minismallholding , I have suggested that instead of time being the determinant for their removal, instead make it x amount of charges for each card. So for instance you can use each card 100, 200, 500, xxx times, then it will go away. If you did that then you could also give them popups to let them know that they can rent the card on the market when its getting ready to be used up. To me this would make the most sense, because we want people to try the cards and then if they like them, they can either buy or rent them in the future.

and Matt Clarke will go in the hall of fame for all he's done for the game :D

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So your saying decaying cards not liking the sound of that at all. a hard no from me if i am understanding it

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(Edited)

THIS. I don't even need to right a direct reply for the article, you covered nearly everything. Great job! I'm going to stop my unstaking just to vote this bs down ;)

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In my opinion Splinterlands think since a long time not to the small player anymore, they aren't interested in them, the time is over when somebody who spent 500$ or 1000$ in the game is worth something.
They showed it again and clear with the promotion for Splinterfest, the smallest package was 4000 packs for 4$ = 16.000$ and if you buy the biggest pack for 160.000$ you got 40-times more SPTD packs than with 16.000$, additional bonus packs (with this promotion) you got also only in the more expensive package.
I don't understand why it is not possible to make also a package for 500$ or 1000$ - the only answer I have is that they don't care about such people with such "small" amounts.
So this is IMO the real problem.

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100% in agreement, a lot big players see that issue as well. We need new players. Period! And currently I do not see a lot that attracts new folks.

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The problem is the game is not competitive at all. If all cards would have the same stats and level up means only " more rewards" it would be the pro gaming scene.

But what we see is money = higher rank means the game is meaningless to compare it to skill.

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If you have zero investment or skill you wont nake money

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only investment needed + time.

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IM a large player with a project that im doing that will focus on bringing new ppl in and getting them in brawls to build up guilds and accounts they can later earn or buy based on there profitability and time with the guild.

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Pretty much, I sold 90% of my account in the last year or so cos I don't like the direction things are going and it makes me think it's all just a waste. I mean who wants to play a game with 50 people with max everything and 100k bots.

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You can beat my bot prob pretty easily if yo uhave the leveled cards to do it.

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There is loook at the purchases in the store 100 = 400 or less with dec, 500 - 2000 or half with dec theres your thousand an 4000 with dec on the last one seems like its covered

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I spoke from the promotion for Splinterfest, this is on top to the normal bonus packs (who aren't free - they need one voucher). To take part in the promotion for Splinterfest you need to buy 4.000 packs for 16.000.000 DECs. Even this packet is very poor if you compare with the paket for 40.000 Packs for 160.000 DECs, if you spent 10-times more you get 40-times more SPTD-Packs, 10% additional bonus packs, more potions & runis.
So IMO you see clear the splinterlands-management is only interested in big investors, they obvisiouly even not thought that their can be people who want (or can) spent only 500$ or 1000$ - This is the point.

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rom the promotion for Splinterfest, this is on top to the normal bonus packs

I haave to disagree i am a big investor now but I wasnt at all times when i first bought in they still let me even though it was not the most profitable for them since legal costs compared to proceeds but they still let me in and have taken care of my concerns and requests when i only had a few grand in in it now i have quite a bit more but still nothing has changed for me. Let them do what they do and i bet it comes out good.

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I think alot of ppl are not really seeing the whole thing and are freaking out bc were in a period where earnings are less if you are using this to earn money for a job you needd a pretty big account and accounts botted a24/7 and played in tournaments plus brawls s well as own the promo items like runis for rewards drops and varous air drops like GLX very improtant in my opinion bc you here them talking baout all the shit they are going to do with the games and if ppl can just wait like i waited a while before when i played al long time ago. Right now take advantage of low prices bc no one has much money im about to buy a bumch of cheap ass cards

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When ppls earnigns go down they dont think straight unless you have dealt with this stuff alot

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Can pool with ppl to do large purchases

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yes you can pool but you cannot share what you get, f.e. potions aren't transferable, so you cannot share them with the member of your pool. So one have the potions to open all packs and other have packs without potions.
Also it is a question of trust to make a pool as in the end the account-owner can just keep all and sent you nothing.
So I think it would be much easier to just allow to buy small packages.

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Not if your a group and partners you just put it in the treasury account and are group will be big enough to do this.

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Thats why i did buy the 25K package myself i got all the airdrops. I get like 70 airdrop cards now and with the end cards approaching they will be valued the most probably have like 5-10 K in drops which pays for half of my purcahse almost to.

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Nice for you, but not everybody can buy 25k packs ...

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I borrowed money on a zero percent credit card like i do every year to flip the packs and use others money for free, this year I used about 150K and used it to lease out in LP pools for stable coins mostly then some went in my brokerage like 30K so i could trade on margin on the margin i had. I didnt get my wealth by not taking any risk. I also have a significant investment in splinterlands including a large SPS, GLX, NODES, LAND, Common Stock in Steemmonsters Corp, large card collection so I have quite a bit of risk and possible reward. I get most cant afford this stuff but should anyone who invested early suffer and lose bc ppl cant figure out how to win and make money? I started grinding with absolutly no outside money and it was a 50K account in 2 years so it can be done you just need to really want to do it just like anything else that 90% fail at. Now im almost at the point maybe 1 million more sps and 200-500K sps then ill start sucking in stable coin pairs to create a annuity to use to buy more gaming assets in games like illuvium and other cryptos.

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If you are so well, why you can't get others a upvote instead of yourself ?
I mean it is not that I beg for votes but to reply and give only a upvote to your reply show me what guy you are - sorry to say this.

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Its purely numbers and using the same content on hive and steam as well as like 10 other sites that give u money then use a AI writer to plow out high quality content based on the best performing articles on each platform. Do text to audio and video on all video sites, translate to all languages that are active, audio and text, use posh for twitter, post on all traditional social media and direct ppl to the referral site which will show them how to get a splinterlands and hive account and then do the first 20 referral codes for bank accounts and get 2000 plus i get 2000 and then they can use that to fund there decks and I end up with a whole lot of money. I have a group of ppl ready to test it and try all of them which will let me get prob 40-50K per person if they get hat far but its like 020 ppl so even if they do the no brainer easy ones to get 2-3K ill get 40-60K just from that lol its so easy to do never tried at this scale but showing how it can get ppl assets for free in the the game will also give me X% of any credits spent so i get a piece of there referral to and any other money spent and will be handing out my referral code with a card for each person and pay them half of the credits in dec and ill use the credits to buy cards and flip or rent. Getting the gladious cards and soul bound for a bunch of accounts is the most important and i have the sps to do it when that comes so why not why wouldnt i as a investor in more ways than one not play this from a money making angle. Its just what im here for is to start a investment club funded by votes and vote capital raises where ppl vote and that translates to there equity pro rata once converted to busd or something. Once i get he funding site up to where ppl can do the bonuses then get a 20% bonus from my cut it all is invested in the club which will give us more funds and eventually will have hopefully a tone of money under management but not over like 100 million if we ever get that high since larger funds cant move money very nimbly or take advantage of this bottom feeding stock strategy i use all the time lol on the micro sctocks with my 1100 dollar robinhood account i mess around with last year made 1700 on 300 my brokerage statement had sales proceees of half a million thats how mucch i traded back and forth to make 2 k lol. It was what i did when i was wallking aaround or randomly remembered but some how i did good for the year lol. Once i get this fund running with my own money thats already in my acounts im goiongto raise the seed capital then probably wait for more performance and go to raise reg A up to 50 million and see how much we can get to manage and ecpand to new things oter than games to. Also will get a nice management fee and promoted interest for as long as the fund is in business so deff gong to make sure everything is seemless to get ppl onboarded to the club and the capital funding for the club and there deck as well so they an play in are guilds and level them up for us and we sell the guilds later with or with out accounts. A 10-20% royalty on every accouny applies so we get money and keep getting a stream that grows when mmore are sold. Also will be working on tokenixing a mazzive guild that the dao will elect the players to play the numner of guilds we will have so they can stream and play 24/7 like bots but will make the offer to give the best players much more rewards than others wwould so its pretty easy to get the ppl and then can try with new players give them the opportunity with a lower split to play a new guild and for each new member we get they will prob play 1/4 of a guild using accounts we own so we get all cards. Then the players will get upvotes if they reblog etc and vote back since the whole point for a investment club is to find strategies to make money. I found plenty thta will be pretty profitable now just need to make the new accounts and all the managment ones and its ready to go for the seed round and maybe well end up getting more than i think using tribevest herd good things. Hopefully we can make the minimum in the reg A like 50 dollars so everyone on hive can be involved at some level if they twant to.

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Think about games similar do like magic ppl have millon dollar collections plus the company has given away essentially profit for ppl who have listened I mean I have a stake in the DAO and the company so im in both sides of the earning fence so the company needs moeny to pay the devs and aeveryone plus produce a roi for unit holders which i have no complaints about. Watched this game develope over the years not once have i been concerned yes we have bull and bear markets , yes may be to risky for some but i thrive on risk and being able to manage it making good trades and setting up systems t osuck out rewards from steem and bring to hive lol.

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But what have this to do with the question if you value small investors or even if you value investors at all ?
I don't know how many player / investors took part in the Splinterfest-promotion, but when I see the shop-page and see how many packs needed till next airdrop it seems for me that it wasn't really much.
The question is f.e. if it is better to collect from 2 investors (this is only a example as I don't know the real participants) 160.000$ = 320.000$ pr from 1000 investers 500$ or 1000$ each = between 500.000 and 1.000.000.

But I can also ask other question:

  1. Is it really appreciative to offer titles with the Untamed-Promotion, don't deliver them as promised and than send the investor who ask for the title from @yabapmatt to @aggroed and back and only deliver the titles when the investor announce that he do a complaint at kickstarter when he don't get his title ?
  2. Is it really appreciative to run the SEED/Germinator-Campaign and announce that Delwyn Dragonscale is except the water summoner the only summoner in the game who add a magic buff, but then even before you can redeem your token from this promotion add Archmage Arius to the game who add also magic buff but also range and melee-buff ?
  3. After 2 is it really the best way to reduce Mana-Cost of Archmage Arius from 6 to 5 and let Delwyn Dragonscale at 5 mana, to spoil worth of Delwyn Dragonscale quite a lot ?
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They could but that thats like 2k if thats to much just split it with ppl thats what we did with a 100k poool.

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The game is simply heading in the wrong direction, no new players would be attracted by this, not gameplay nor rewards.

And we need new people and also keep old ones interested that leave already, a clear no to this proposal and any other changes that is purely intended to influence money and reward part. Maybe a cool gameplay attracts newbies?

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@uwelang I agree very much about the perceived direction (that isn't necessarily their intent though) and about the retention issues. I've spoken directly with @yabapmatt about these issues in particular. He has promised that it is high on his priority list. While there are no single fixes (there are many steps needed to be taken), I think Matt is on it. I do trust that when Matt puts his mind to something, then he will make it happen in a way that we are all impressed!

I don't think we have to vote "no" on this proposal to be heard though, Matt says clearly this is just one step he's taking with many more to come.

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I made my bet on the team years ago and i have not seen a change in there approach and if anything this game has improved 10X so im very happy to have bought units in the game and the DAO units so i get GLX tokens and Nodes

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I still would just owuld need a bit more money now maybe 5K to get started wit ha collection owned but I have a partner who rents and kills it

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IM doing a project ot help with that in guilds but there is just no way hihg level rewards can ever be cmpared to a new player who spent no money yet. I barely made anything i grinded alll day bc i likeed it lol Now havea lot of cards and capital so i can ahve nfty set up 8K packs for chaos optimized decks for rentals and splits if we make 10 on all 1500 accounts we get 15K a day plus EOS and Brawls as well as 100% of bot rewards to earn merits and sps during the day or night.

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I agree 100% with this analysis and think the starter card issue needs to be addressed ASAP. It's not being given enough attention for how important of an issue it really is. My wife enjoyed the game but quit playing after a few weeks because of how awful the new player experience really is.
This really, really needs to be given top priority. And it's an easy fix!! 30 days and starter cards go away. Or a set of 'charges' per card aaaaand... they're gone. This is LONG overdue, especially when you consider the tremendous impact of this particular bot exploit.

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The bots are not designed to beat your deck IF you actually use max level cards for the league you are playing in. This results in more people renting cards like I do and using the highest levels for each card which I have never had a problem beating the bots since I don't just play nonstop to pick random cards and "hope" to win. That is how people are abusing the rewards right now and if you stake SPS, this shouldn't even question the proposal here as it is a no brainer.

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This proposal sounds good as long as it does not impact all the ppl who bot with say two 45k acccounts

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It will help my bot win more since mine is playing high level so im goood

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Good ideas! I would also like to add on this. In order to make the bots go away, let's separate everyone who has those free cards into a "Free League", which is basically same as the normal leagues, but without rewards. It doesn't serve anyone to have bots playing for rewards.

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yes free but not bots who have 90K in the game

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Not in thousands of accounts but betwen like 3

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Its a way we earn a roi 24/7 and are able to support things with that money there is no way that having a bot account with thousands of dollars of cards is exploiting

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Yes and do not impact investors who put money into the bots like serious money

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No it actually does they give ppl games to play now im talking about botsthat have a high amount of investment not shit bots like if you play mine it will be a challenge in diamond or champion no way bots should be banned many will wait like a hour for a match.

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I agreee for no investment but fuck no fo ppl who have hig level bots with alot of money and have fun finding any game to play

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I like your idea. I play a whole lot less these days because it is not worth the massive amounts of time it would take to even begin to make this rewarding. I'm trying out brawls to see if I can at least bring back the fun.

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Thats wehre my project is focusing on making higher level guilds accessible by leveling them on a large scale for ppl who are new to playin like reservedf spots not for older players as much. I want to build them up get them strong accounts then give them the purchase option to buy out the account with gladious cards that we would own until then.

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I get to diamond one in like less than a day in wild

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(Edited)

I think that if a player (or should we nowadays say "the bot of a player"?) is skillful enough to succeed in a certain league, they should also be able to earn the rewards promised by this league. Actually, if someone with cards of a lower level reaches the same rating like a player with cards of higher levels that is an indicator that they play the game rather well. I see no reason to punish good players.

Yes, I see a huge problem caused by bots, but in my opinion to 'punish' skillful players is not the solution of that problem.

Furthermore, some cards are simply not much better on higher than on lower levels (think at the chicken), and therefore I see no reason to put artificial pressure on uplevelling every single card.

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The thing is that the reality has nothing to do with skill. It's just accounts with level 1 cards playing against other accounts with level 1 cards over and over and slowly but surely moving up the leagues.

Rewards need to be based on a combination of skill and assets. Skill will lead to a higher win rate which is one of the biggest factors in the amount of rewards, but for the assets part all we really had was collection power which is too easily manipulatable.

This aims to fix the asset part of things. If you want to earn the rewards, you have to have the cards. This will be a huge benefit to the entire ecosystem and everyone who owns assets in it.

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(Edited)

Yes, in lower leagues that might be correct.

In higher leagues I can talk for myself: as I am using a pure gold foil account I cannot max all cards because that is simply too expensive (maybe for non GF accounts that's somewhat easier). However, I can use some near max level cards quite effective (also some cards like the chicken or the albatross don't even require high levels at all to be very helpful) and normally always reach Champion II. In that case (at least if played manually) I call that skills.

I wouldn't consider that change to be "terrible" but I am not convinced it to have an overall positive effect (I might think about it again, though).

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Yes you're right that it's different in higher leagues vs lower leagues. In higher leagues it's much more skill-based and this particular issue is mostly found in the lower leagues.

Overall though, the general concept here is to require more assets to earn the max potential rewards. So the fact that some cards like the chicken don't require high levels is a bad thing in my opinion - there should always be benefits for leveling up cards, so this mechanism helps to provide that. Now there will be more reason to level up those cards.

For gold foil cards, I think typically the GF card bonus will outweigh the reduction from this change, so they will still be a net positive in most cases, and also hopefully this will provide more incentive for them to be purchased/rented even at the high prices.

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(Edited)

Nice to see that you take the time to answer to questions and concerns so thoroughly!

As you are 'here' I take the opportunity to let you know what is my only real worry concerning the future of Splinterlands (I think all other problems should be anyhow solvable). I fear that bots will completely dominate the game sooner or later (and to a certain degree already do, even in the highest leagues - you might ask @jacekw for confirmation).
I wrote about that topic here, but since then the problem even increased.

I understand that the philosophy of blockchain and decentralization makes it difficult to take any effective measures against bot dominance.

I also know the view point of the Splinterlands team to be 'bot agnostic'.

Nevertheless, I would really apreciate you to read my bot post in case your time allows it.
(Of course then you could also answer in Discord instead of on chain if you prefer that.)

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I read your post and I agree with you about bots. If they can beat chess and go they can beat Splinterlands (which is currently much simpler than chess or go). I have two comments on that:

  1. The plan is to make the game more and more involved with more player input over time. I know it's still a while out, but the item and spell cards that are part of the land expansion are a good example of that. That type of thing will increase the complexity for bots by many orders of magnitude and hopefully give human players a big advantage, at least for a while, by which time hopefully we can add even more things to the game. The advantage we have over chess or go is that chess and go don't change and add new features, but Splinterlands does (it's just been very slow, but will be getting faster).

  2. I'm not sure it's necessarily a bad thing if bots are ultimately better than human players. Many people will still just enjoy playing the game and they will be matched up against opponents at a similar skill level - especially as the game grows and there are more players at all levels. So at the highest levels people may use bots and compete on the best bot software (which is also kind of cool), and then at other levels human players can compete against other players (whether bot or human) at their skill level so they can enjoy the game and work on improving. So I'm not sure that it's necessarily bad or good - it's just different and has its own pros and cons.

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(Edited)

Nice reply!

The first part sounds promising.

Concerning the second part:
Yes, actually, I am also fascinated by some chess programs, 'masterpieces' of software and (partly) AI.
And I also respect people who will write better and better Splinterlands bots in future (yes, that's indeed also "cool"). :)

A pure bot championship would be actually fascinating, too: who is able to write the best, most sophisticated Splinterlands bot? In chess there are competitions only for software ...

Especially in chess, bots are great tools to practice one's skills, analysing games and learning to understand chess better.
(Interesting also for Splinterlands could be the idea that some chess programs are having certain modes in which they intentionally don't always play the best possible move to make the games against human opponents more exciting and variable.)

However, one difference is that in chess (or GO) in (human) tournaments and public servers bots are strictly forbidden. That means human players are never forced to play against a bot if they don't want. They can intentionally challenge a chess program (if they really think they would be able to beat 'God') :-) or just practice with it, but in human tournaments they can be sure to face human opponents only.

Concerning Splinterlands that could mean, there could be different kinds of competitions in future, for example "bot only", "human only" and "mixed". Then at least everybody would have a choice. And I know very well that even if 'we' would try to implement these different kinds of tournaments it would be very difficult to verify that a 'human' is really a 'human'.

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I agree tournaments and guild brawls no bots is cool but a high investment account should be able to earn all day in normal battles for ranked rewards and i dont make as much if i were to actually play it all day but i come back to play when im in the leauge i want i dont want to sit thought the lower leauges when i want to work on my guild project to help ppl get into the game plus make some money with it to. Like i cant do that with out my high level bots, There will be alot of things that dissapear if those go away like get banned not if they become obsolete then i neeed to deal with it and find another way

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Why should anybody play themselves, if bots do the same without wasting time and energy? In the end with this vision Splinterlands might become an inhabited ghost town where bots play against bots. A pure staking mechanism but no game anymore.

If the daily games are too many for a human, just make them less.
You also don't tell a soccer player like Lionel Messi to play 5 soccer games per day. :)
Create conditions within the game which humans can fulfil.

I wrote a longer post about it some time ago.

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There not i can play beter and have a better win rate but when im not playing i want more money with my level of investment in the game im a investor first now but also a player bc i like it which is why i invested in the company in the first place in 2019.

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Yes, we are all investors (I am also one since 2018), but in my opinion long term every investor earns most if the game is developing well and attracts as many as possible satisfied new players.
And the big majority of human players prefers to play against other humans ...

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100% why im dong what im doing with my project to grow it

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On point 1 and 2
Would it make more sense to wait for land to implement then propose this change?
Depending on how far land is from implementation it could be factored in then.

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On the first point, would it be a good idea to commit to something like 1 new ruleset per month? And maybe deprecate some older ones in favor of newer ones after a while to not make it super complicated for the human players after a while.

That should give bots a hard time keeping up. The question is, would we tolerate the rapid changes better, as humans?

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And a bot say like mine with a lot of cards and power will be able to compete while i cant play and give ppl a opponentin diamond and champ

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there should always be benefits for leveling up cards, so this mechanism helps to provide that. Now there will be more reason to level up those cards.

But doesn't it really just punish you for not having a leveled up card rather than rewarding you for having it? Meaning will the rewards for a given league increase from where it is now?

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Punishing vs rewarding in these cases are really just a matter of perspective. Yes, players using lower level cards will get less than they received previously if this change goes into effect, but really they were getting more than is sustainable for their cards in the past and it's just being "fixed" now.

But from the general perspective - not comparing it to a flawed previous system - the higher level your cards, the more rewards you earn - so you are rewarded for getting higher level cards.

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Thanks for the reply. What aspect is unsustainable? Is it the rewards paid out or is it fluctuations in the card market?

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Its acceptible to have two bots with significant cp right i just want to stay on the same page as the message going out from everyone. Also my bots will partially be used to onboard players etc so i see that as a possitive effect of it and lets me earn while i do that stuff. Not doing the bs level one lol mine are maxed or close.

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I thought the fixed pool of rewards ensured sustainability, but I'm interested in learning why that is not the case, meaning we need to implement something like this. I love learning, so thanks for your insightful responses!

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In general a good idea.

What if:

All cards have the same starts from Level 1 to Max,

Skill becomes more skillbased,

Only rewards change.

Level 1 no rewards,

level Max = max rewards.

That would be a very drastic change, but would remove bots, special if the curve would be right.

Now the question would be, are investors sad or happy with it?

I mean on the other hand "delegate cards" would be for example for the best to earn.

What would be the reason to earn?

Yeah here everything becomes difficult :D

Was a spontan idea, but maybe something like this ( less drastic) could be a thing.

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I would agree level one
but the top tier levels diamond to champ shouldnt be so drastic but deff have a incentive to do it. And where can i go to try and get SPTs vote lowered other than buying half the SPT lol 20 million is crazy. I can get it but no one else can and the cartel controls it all.

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play with high level cards could access the rewards chests,

i mean at some point the walls are to high for new players and the game will die.

The game has not the "fun factor" of a high class game. So it needs to be a competitive game.

If this becomes impossible to be,

what game is it at the end?

Pay to play to earn?

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I get diamond with the bot arch a and b they cost 30 to 1000 for a but if you used a 30 at work you will come home to earnings ppl need to be able to let it play 24/7 and games would dry up.

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In higher leagues it is part of the fun in the game and skill of the player to craft your deck in a cost effective way. This proposal will remove that. May I suggest to remove the champ limit or make it less impactful by for example giving 1 or 2 cards per match that are exempt at diamond / champ because in the current system we see no low level farming at champ so there is no reason to solve anything. To put this proposal as a blanket over all leagues will take away a fun element of the game, and reduce the influence of skill/knowledge of the player.

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You cant play 24/7 and I like to earn 24/7 im a investor and player removing my ability to earn 24/7 will not be good for many players alot will dissapear then you have no one developing or creating a large project like im doing bc they cant fund it and if you cant beat my bot then the skill is not there. Im better than my bot but im working 20 hours a day on my project i think i deserve a bit of pay.

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I agree the botting to leech rewards needs to stop with bots that have not invested its not a suck rewards from ppl investing in the game free for all lol.

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GF were cheap last i looked
But the easiest way if in your budget is but alot of cards lol. I know it cant be done always

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(Edited)

In general it is simple, make the game more complex + add random factors.

For now it is a bot game, and i see no reason why this would change.

The most simple thing would be to "disvalue" low-effort bots with an additional layer of complexity.

With this change in place, it could also remove the general MMR system and use the cards for access.

Why wasting time in lower leagues with higher level cards?

You match the cards, you can join the league.

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As long as it doesnt efffect equipt bots like mine with 10-30K in them

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(Edited)

I totally agree, but if thats the case maybe bring back guaranteed elements for every match or something. Cuz now its just really expensive to play Splinterlands at the level that you want to play at, compared to the past (or you just get a lower ROI, which doesn't matter, except it does a little bit).

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Ya i agree should have something to keep ppl who jsut cant seem to get there maybe a group who is voluntiered to help those ppl with scholarships like i could support one. I wouldnt mind especially with NFTY they will cut that work down

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I run it as a business I have debt on it and in order to keep playing and developing my business kinda need to make money and work at the same time. I do love playing but i cant do it and be susstainable all the time with out the bots. I have put the money in the game im a investor in the game I have every part. So i agree low level moochers go but dont mess with high level bots who put in the money for it. I starteed grinding with nothing ppl can do it they just dont take the time. I would spend all weekend grinding to get my account where it is

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It does matter lol im both a gamer and have fun but i need to make money to lol so im all for this seeparating the leeches out and letting ppl run higher level bots like mine. I consolidated to a rental account and a bot account which i also always playi n tournaments and brawls my self not using the bot. I just use archmage a for extra income.

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(Edited)

It's just accounts with level 1 cards playing against other accounts with level 1 cards over and over and slowly but surely moving up the leagues.

Then the point system is borked.

If a League of Legends player with a "true" ability of Silver 1 is on Silver 1, he can play literally unlimited matches but he will stay at Silver 1, as he'll win 50% of the matches and lose 50% of the matches. Small swings obviously happens, but this hypotetical player will end up in the same place as his teoretical, true ability. That's what a MMR system is meant to do.

If in Splinterlands, bot accounts full of lvl 1 cards can just climb through the leagues by beating other bot accounts running the same bot software, something's not right. If they're at the same ability level (eg same bot software) and using the same (or really similar) cards, they should just keep wasting their time against each other, without climbing the leagues.

Back to the LoL example: if you take 1000 "true" Silver 1 players and put them against each other, after thousands of matches they'll all still be at Silver 1, as that's their correct ranking. They can't climb if they're not actually playing better.

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My bot climbs to champ sometimes but i invested alot in it
llike 65K between both

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I disagree, I've always played games where I "fight up hill" I can put money in a game but no where near what others can. I've always made up for this with skill, learning the game and counters. I don't consider myself the best player but above average. I have a lot of max bronze cards, some max silver cards for water and 3 max silver summoners. I fight my way into gold and the frustration of playing against maxed out deck because of the last proposal which said my $1000 deck isn't good enough to earn rewards. I don't rent, overall I feel renting stagnates your account and stops growth.

So I break into gold and can beat players in gold with max out decks who aren't skilled and then get crushed by some that are skilled and some that just have max cards for gold.

I put 7 grand into this game this year after I found it in Feb but I made the decision to get set a baseline passive income so most of that went into 2 nodes. I bought 181 RW packs I'm still trying to open.

I've put money into this game but as I play I'm still contently told the skill I have isn't good enough because you haven't spent enough.

This proposal I understand what it is trying to accomplish and do, I actually somewhat support the idea before the massive shift of SPS rewards to the top end. There has to be a way for yes skilled players to earn without having to drop 5 - 10 thousand dollars ever 6 months. Most of the long term players haven't put that money in (yes there are some if not plenty who have) but overall most of them are where they are because of when they found the game.

Aggy keep saying he wants to fix spawn point in-equality but splinterlands lands keeps making it's own spawn point in-equality overall if you weren't here pre-airdrop or I'd say even alpha / beta the amount of money you have is massive more than what "top" level players have had to put in.

The tournament during splinterfest showed when a bronze player was able to compete in the tournament there is a difference between skill and having enough money to buy the cards.

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Gotta have both in this model and this game you can earn in just may need to take a risk now compared to earlier when it ws cheapter. I just added 25K to my ourchases. Need to invest to or all the ppl who did would leave u with worthless cards bc if we all dump then there is no money left i deff dont want my favorite game to die plus the money time and now work im putting into my own projects for it with out are funding nothing would be made

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Never said you didn't but I had a plan that keep getting nerfed from when I entered the game. When I entered SPS was over .12 so I've lost 1/2 my value there but I've manage to invest right to still be able to get 2 node. I don't have 15 - 30 grand to get a max untamed deck so I'll never be able to complete one for modern. My plan was to set up passive income and work toward CL and Rebellion when it comes out but even 181 RW packs doesn't touch what I need for silver let a lone gold and that is around $750. I have some skill in the game and still learning so I'm "okay" with the struggle fight up hill against maxed out decks in each league which they are there and most of what I fight anymore since the last proposal. While I try to build because I wasn't here in the beginning. Prior to the last proposal this one was needed now... most of the decks I fight in silver and gold are maxed for silver at least and a lot for gold.

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Me to i want spt bc its bs that one org controls it.And i will soon have sure backing to be able to take it and force the vote to lower it and then change the token and distirbute to all bc they are just raking it in i have alot at one poitn and i was able to get like 50 bucks a day

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mine is odd one doesnt apply to many but I was awarded 2.5 sps per common uniit so i got 25K and sold then bought from .2 on

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Did you think about combining to one max then branching

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that is around $750. I have some skill in the game and still learning so I'm "okay"

packs are under two bucks CL prob a good buy and nodes they will be a serious good buy in my opinion only there under 2K im going to be all over those today

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If you need a account to play a higher level join are organization we will be doing a live stream to open 10000 packs with other givaways to next week to show what were doing and why. Kind of explain how it will bring new players and help them grow then come out with more than they had ready to compete.

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t but even 181 RW packs doesn't touch what I need for silver let a lone gold a

I can buy a gold deck for that cheap

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I've put money into this game but as I play I'm still contently told the skill I have isn't good enough because you haven't spent enough.

THIS!

I get so tired of hearing about/reading people being told things like this.


The value of a person's collection can vary immensely. Just because someone's name isn't purple in Discord, doesn't mean they haven't invested a substantial amount of money.

People need to stop assuming that every Silver collection is worth $47 and understand that a good collection can easily be worth 5 figures $$$$$.

!BEER

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My partner is on the leaderbaords renting cards she kicks ass so it its possible you just need skill and say a guild that will support some rentals

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hat a good collection can easily be worth 5 figures $$$$$.

Exactly my accounts passed into 6 figures this year and its jsut bc i have the capital and love the game also want to be in on all parts like runi, td, gls, sps especially, nodes and land. There will be ways to get this stuff by winning nd grinding i did it before i put money in i started with nothing back then. My accoutn was worth 40K at the peak sold all of it then bougth back.

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It's just accounts with level 1 cards playing against other accounts with level 1 cards over and over and slowly but surely moving up the leagues.

That's not true in my case. Nonetheless, what about this? Each game has a pot based on the total level of cards played. So level cards would essentially lower the pot. The winner takes the whole pot. It encourages players to level up because 1. It's easier to win with leveled up cards. 2. A player with leveled up cards will earn more over time.

This rewards good play which will make the game more fun and allows a mechanism to reward purchases.

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(Edited)

hello sir @yabapmatt .

Can't we just remove the rewards and rating increase from, for example a gold-league battle between 1bcx vs 1bcx?

Sometimes I cannot find an appropriate level summoner to rent because there's nothing available to rent or the ones available are grossly overpriced.

So if I'm in Gold, and have to use a level 1 legendary summoner, I can still win (of course not always) but then my rewards would be significantly lower with this proposal.

I know there are many 1bcx bots in gold (I have some too), so I'm okay with losing my reward/rating if I manually win against fellow low level decks (bot or not) in Gold. But if I beat a high level (gold-capped) deck, then I feel it's unfair to get punished.

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There likely will be more when nifty is integrated with many of the larger projects like mine were goign to rent a lot of cards to.

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It's been a while you haven't played if you think that it's still the case.
Competition has be increasing every season for the past like 4 seasons.
I spent thousands in SPL and it takes me half the season to get out of silver sometimes.
I used to be able to get to gold with low level cards, now you have to have a maxed deck to be able to be competitive in gold because everybody is playing maxed decks.
Decks might not be maxed in silver but rewards are so low that doesn't even makes sense to punish players that don't have a great silver deck. It's a tax on a tax.
We're not even talking about rewards in bronze.
Sincerely, do be able to make that game any profitable (with still a bit of luck) is to play in diamonds at least.

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(Edited)

in a game, punish players with skill, such an idea can only come from someone who has no idea about gaming and only thinks about his money, sorry but we should not destroy the balance between game and investors even more!

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No thats not true I think about both I play and I bot my accounts when i cant bc I need to fund my self and the stuff im working on and im not botting shit acccounts. I treat this like a fun thing and a business i borrrowed money to get where I am maybe if you want to get on that level you might have to take a risk. Not advice just saying you cant get anywhere that rewards you with no risk and if you couldnt take my bot kick its ass with the same cards in say a 100 battles stint you need more skill or it would make you better,

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One question: Do you have contact with other people in real life?

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What kind of question is that of course i do and if you look at what we are doing maybe dont judge before im sorry im able to make large investments bc i worked my dick off and am able to get lines of credit for this as well as use retirement funds like im taking real risk but the rewards will be worth it and i plan on sharing those all with my team. If we hit 1 million in profit in 12 months were all going to take 100K of that and go on vacation as a reward or pay for all the ppl to attend splitnerfest if were at 2-5 million whic his likely since we have other profit generation things in the works as well.

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im just a trader and investor for my job i retired form tranditional work a few years agot young yes but i worked my ass of to do it.

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i ask because your texts come across as if you are quite anti-social and have zero sense of empathy

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Im just blunt i dont suger coat shit texts are completely different than in person if you met me you would think tottaly diff

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I honestly dont care what ppl think they love it or hate it im going to be me.

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I think ive talked in here more than anythin and visit my discord you will get a totally diff side of me

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Not really anti social is it just not what you may be used to

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This is business with real money on the line so no i do not suger coat it for ppl i dont care if they get offended this world is to sensitive as it is. I am trying to do whats best for my investment and the game since i do own both SPS, Cards, Splinterlands Stock and pretty much every thing i can so have a lot in here so my opinon will be made at least if ppl take it the wrong way just ask and if i fucked up ill admit it lol

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Some cards are in some rulesets even worser at higher level, take the Gelatinous Cube, if you use Mimosa Nightshade or the Ruleset is "No Magic" the Gelatinous Cube level 9 is better than the level 10 version, simple because he has one livepoint more and Void is already added from the summoner or is not neccessary if no magic monster can be on the battlefield.

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Then play what works better?

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I think it is better if your monster has one lifepoint more without any disadvantages for this or not ?

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I think the idea of this proposal is honorable, but this idea I very much dislike. It seems to me that especially gold players will be punished here, who are like the middle class of the Splinterlands ecosystem.

I OWN a lot of cards at lvl 1 that I frequently use, just because they are still good even at lvl 1. Phantom of the Abyss, Halving Alchemist, Kron the Undying, Oaken Behemoth are some examples.
These cards cost me a lot of money. Their combined worth is hundreds of dollars even right now, and I bought them at a much higher price. Kron alone was at least 300$ back then.

I feels really unfair knowing I will then be punished for paying this price and now wanting to play them like I always did.

I strongly hope this one will not pass.

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Mine is 55k now lol dont kill og players shit but neeed a way to help new ppl which is what im trying to do by levelin guilds for rent or purchase with a tiny 3-4% royalty

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(Edited)

I'm in the same boat. I've got most of the Untamed/Dice Legendaries, but only BCX 1 because they were super expensive when I got them. Some of them work well enough in higher leagues, some of them don't. It is, what it is, but if this passes, none of those cards are going to be much use to me anymore if I'm losing a percentage of my FP every time I use one.

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I agree. The impact should be more substantial at the highest levels and least impactful at the lowest levels. For example give room at bronze level with a free bonus of say 20% so a player doesn't get completely hammered. Maybe a free bonus of 5% in silver, then it runs as explained in this proposal.

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This proposal im good with as long as my high level bots and play is not impacted

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The more I thought about it, the more cards came to my mind that were strategically of high value to purchase at a certain lvl just because they are having/getting one good ability or can act as a meatshield. I bought them all for a reason and now that reason is invalid and the decision does not make a lot of sense anymore.

Just to give you guys an idea:

most untamed/dice legendaries, all Fiends lvl 1 (meatshield), Kobold Miner lvl 3 (+1 attack), Sabre Shark lvl 2 (+1 attack), GF Chicken lvl 3 (meatshield + gf bonus), GF Ooze lvl 3 (slow + gf bonus), Medusa lvl 3 (stun), Ice Pixie lvl 1 (flying for earthquake), Coral Wraith lvl 1 (sneak and magic attack), Kelp Initiate lvl 1 (meatshield), The Kraken lvl 1 (big tank), Flesh Golem lvl 3 (self healing tank), Wood Nymph lvl 1 (front heal), Mushroom Seer lvl 1 (silence), Brownie lvl 1 (+1 speed), Mitica Headhunter lvl 1 (4 dmg, 5 speed), Divine Healer lvl 3 (from 0 to 1 magic damage), Crystal Werewolf (silence + meatshield), truthspeaker lvl 1 (protect + starter card, bought her only to not gain a minus...), Light Elemental lvl 1 (flying and solid 2 magic dmg), Undead Priest lvl 3 (from 0 to 1 magic dmg), Bone Golem lvl 1 (starter card, void and 1 speed for reversed speed), Octopider lvl 3 (demoralize), Phantom Soldier lvl 1 (flying + solid stats), Enchanted Pixie lvl 1(neutral flying for earthquake), Prismatic Energy lvl 1 (magic reflect, great with Mycelia and Obsidian), Halfing Alchemist lvl 1 (unique halving effect).

You see, these are not just one or two random cards. Especcially the wild cards are expensive and I even bought some in the alpha version to GAIN a bonus, not to lose something.
Yesterday I even managed to showcase a win with some of these cards who ALL would give a minus if the proposal passes.

I also heard that many people said we would still get more in the end if all the bots are pushed out of gold league. If that is the case, the proposal is fine on paper. It still feels very wrong to me, and as others pointed out this and other things lead to the feeling that devs dont care for the smaller guys (even though I know for sure they do!) and that humans are always collateral damage when bots are targeted. If that is done time and time again, people will feel let down.

In the end, I still love and trust the team and their game. I know everything will work out over time, but this proposal I think is not the way to do it, but of course I could be wrong and this proposal will do only good in the end.
I appreciate all of your effort and the SL team members discussing with us about this.

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ld league. If that is the case, the proposal is fine on paper. It still feels very wrong to me, and as others pointed out this and other things lead to the feeling that devs dont care for the smaller guys

Finally you msut have been here a while to bc if ppl dont see it they are only here for thre money i starrted playing barely making a thing then foound out how to make money as the game changed i adapted

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Since every league has it's own pool, your absolute reward shares aren't important. What is more important is the number or reward shares you earn relative to all other players in gold.

If everyone in gold feels the same as you (it's not worth it to buy more copies of those cards, then your rewards won't be affected.

The question becomes, do you have a more leveled up deck than most people in your league? If yes, then this may lower your reward shares but increase your earnings.

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I like the assertiveness this formula (as an example) shows toward paying upwards to players that have more cards or more skin in the game based off their lineups at each given level. This could be something worthwhile for sure.

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This to me just dicourages people from taking a chance at higher leagues. It's incredibly expensive to bring all your cards up to the next level. I had almost all my cards at silver level recently and diecided to try my hand at gold. Since I've been there I've probably spent $1500 bring a few cards up to gold. But for what if now I'm going to make silver level rewards if I don't spend another $50k to get them all there immediately.

This constant moving of the goal posts makes me want to go back to just renting out my cards instead of playing.

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Im at 35K lol

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so there must be a copermise bc ppl that spent 60 K on a account like me will not be happy to be cut out of a reward thing. Im all for adding more fairness where the team decies to but cut the legs off early players who hold alot what if ppl dump and basically crush the market. I dont think it will happen i mean im not parting with mine but it needs to be a medioum

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I don't think anybody is trying to cut you out. We just don't believe it's right for you to get richer through taxing us smaller accounts more. You have already made yourself a profitable business with your investment. I'm happy for you. I really am. I just don't think it's right to employ market manipulation to further inflate your earnings. You're doing well enough. No need to fleece new players.

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how am i fleecing ppl im creating 50 guilds to onboard new player help them get inl Cut my legs out thos wont exist

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