RE: “Mavericks House” Discord Channel Pre-Proposal
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I Don't Blame The Voters, I Blame The Lack Of Respect
I fully understand why players support this. Mav chat has degenerated recently into a repellent for the game. I don't blame anyone for voting for this, many Mavs have been "trolling, belittling and delivering personal attacks." Getting rid of these Mavs is a normal response, and this proposal is a wake up call.
The lack of respect for the community on display should never again be tolerated.
Why I Will Vote Against It
I have met many amazing people that are part of our community, some are large and some are not. But many do in fact share the love of our community and the game. I will tell one story in particular, but there are many more I could tell.
There is a young lady that is in Mav Chat almost every day. She is a breath of fresh air, always positive, excited and motivated. I have known her for years now. I remember when she was so excited to buy enough packs to get her "Mav" title. She actually BELIEVES that being a Mav is something special.
Not only that, she saved up her money so she could attend Splinterfest. She's not rich, she's in her early 20s. But she saved her money because to her this is her community and she feels at home with us.
I can list many other things she has bought and traded for. Why? because she tells me all the time...She LOVES the game and CARES about the community.
She had 5 plots and didn't get a castle or keep, but a Keep was her dream for over a year. I traded her for one and she couldn't stop talking about how excited she was for at least a week. She also runs a guild, not a big guild but its a real guild with real players. And guess what, all those players wanted to be in her land and play with her in HER SLICE OF PRETORIA.
She wanted a Zyriel, because its cool. She can't afford a Max one, but she didn't care because just a few will do. I could go on and on.
We All Know Her Name
If you spend any time on Discord, you will know who she is. She's there pretty much ever day. Her name is The Lunacy System and I call her "Luna".
But not today. She is gone. I don't mean absent or busy, I mean gone. Exited entirely from Splinterlands.
Why Do I Care?
She's only one person, why should I care if she left? The answer for me is simple. I like to be a part of a community where someone like Luna exists. I like that she took pride in meeting her quota of getting 1000 packs to be "special". I respected her and conversed with her many thousands of times. She was my friend, and she is a friend to many others too.
On top of that she is a defender of the game. She constantly changed her handles, and one of the last ones was something like "Member of the FUD Fight Club". SHE WAS DEFENDING THE MAVS AND FIGHTING THE FUD WE FACED FAR MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE. She showed up every day with a smile and an attitude that she was going to defend us.
And now she is gone. In one day, with one massive insult, she feels not a part of this community. Not because she didn't actually belong, but because she KNEW she couldn't get 100K SPS.
Who can blame her? I can't.
She was fighting the FUD, while we were telling her she doesn't belong anymore.
What Luna Didn't Know
Prior to this proposal even being proposed I spoke to my friend @leveluplifeph and suggested that he add the provision so old Mavs could receive "delegated SPS". I knew Luna (and many like her) would not feel wanted and I would personally delegate my SPS to my friends to keep them in the club.
He even included my provision, but the first 3 responses from @oaaguy @michaelb and @clayboyn supported his own belief that my "softness" on this issue was not warrented, and a tougher line was needed. Note: I don't blame any of the 4 because they are all good people and they are trying to solve a problem they see. I'm just explaining the facts so people can understand them.
But nevertheless that provision was taken away, and now there is no real way for Luna (or others) to stay Mavs and be part of the club they were a part of if this proposal passes as is.
To me we just lost someone awesome. Someone that we should want. Someone that embodies what we want millions of. Luna may be gone forever over one simple thing, and yes she's sensitive, but to me that's what makes her special. Simply put, "she cared".
In fact she cared too much because her feelings were so hurt that she broke the love she had for the community.
How To Handle It?
In Luna's case she left. That makes me sad. She was and will be someone that I will respect and remember til I die. There are others like Luna too, don't kid yourself. For every immature player that disrespects our community, there are many more Luna's out there that love our community. I hate to let the bad guys win, but if this vote passes as is then I feel that will be the outcome.
So I will do 2 things: vote and react.
Vote And React
I will vote against this proposal. Not because I think the intention is bad to get rid of the toxic players, but because I DO NOT WANT TO GET RID OF MY FRIENDS THAT HAVE EARNED MAV STATUS but are not rich, they are my friends and my community. I will delegate them my own SPS to keep them if that is a requirement, but I can not vote in good conscious to let any of the GOOD PEOPLE in our community leave over this.
The second thing I will do is leave Mav Chat and hang out in the Tavern until Luna comes back and the vote fails as its written. I'm not doing this to be mean or "get my way", I'm doing this because I want to symbolically demonstrate to Luna (and many others) that I value their friendship more than I value a Mav title.
I want to be part of the Mav Community, but I want to be in Luna's Community more. Its not disrespectful to any Mav, in fact my feelings are just the ultimate respect for Luna and what she represents. We need a million Luna's and in my opinion we should be doing everything possible to get her back. (and those like her)
The Truth
I am only one person and I don't care if anyone agrees or not with me. I am not blasting anyone voting for this proposal and in fact I have a ton of respect for @leveluplifeph. I feel he is addressing a need that he sees and trying to find a solution.
I also do not think he or anyone that supports this has any intention of hurting anyone's feelings or disenfranchising anyone. I think they are all sincere and frankly want to see some respect again in Mav Chat. And I 100% support that too.
So please understand that I blame the community members that have repeatedly been "trolling, belittling and delivering personal attacks" on a daily basis. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM, THEY ARE THE ONES THAT I BLAME. THEY ARE THE ONES THAT SHOULD BE APOLOGIZING for making this issue even appear.
I'm Sorry As Well
There are many people that are guilty of "trolling, belittling and personal attacks", including me. I have attacked people that were arguing with me, so I'm guilty too.
For that I'm sorry. We are all human, which means we all make mistakes. I have not shown good judgement at times and I have attacked others. The point is not whether I was justified, the point is I set a bad example for others by doing so. I also showed a lack of respect for my fellow Mavs in the process, the Mav room is not a place for that.
So I certainly shoulder some of the blame as well, and I definitely apologize.
You can't make rules based on every exception. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Good luck in Tavern, they're actually pretty cool!
I understand, and like I said I don't blame you or anyone for wanting to clean up Mav chat. Its way overdue and I hope it does get fixed for sure!
And yes the tavern is fine with me, I agree we have some pretty cool peeps in there too! :)
you also can't judge a person's character by his sps....
i would even argue that you potentially bring in more trolls. because i can buy 100k sps troll around and sell the 100k sps again. if i buy 1k packs in the store, i will always have a loss because i would have gotten more packs for the money on the market. so who obviously shows more that he stands by splinterlands....
You can't judge a person's character by how many packs they bought either. You can only judge a person's character based on their actions and your own personal beliefs, assumptions and expectations of 'the other' which ultimately is just a reflection of our selves. It is what it is, it's not a personal thing. It's about establishing a minimum baseline that isn't a moving a target that requires some kind of actual skin in the game to maintain. Essentially, it's much like burning DEC to make people pay attention to a DAO proposal... stake SPS to make people listen to whatever you have to say in mav chat.
but the solution can't be to make trolling easier. with the 100k sps requirement. you can now just change your identity every month by just sending your sps to another account. or people with a lot of sps can split their sps and participate in a discussion with multiple accounts at the same time to reinforce their opinion. or even easier mobbing people by pretending that 5 people are trolling one person even though it's one person with 5 accounts etc etc. for people who really come to discord on purpose to troll or fudden this rule is like a gift!
Only one way to find out I suppose. If it doesn't work we can always make another proposal to change it or roll it back.
what if for people it is account total value if they dont meet the 100K but would meet say the equivalent value
Welcome to Tavern, it's where all the cool people hang :)
Though It tempts me to join mavs to get mad at them for throwing shade at the Luna's who already put in 1000 packs worth into the game and are being told to GTFO of the community because they need to put in 100,000 SPS too
thanks @freedomno1
Happy to hang with the cool peeps! :D
I think letting people stay who were there is probably a good idea if ppl really want to differentiate have a pack symbol for grandfathered people and a diff one for ppl with sps and give older ppl with both req a guy with a walker with a og fedora or something lol. I get it for new MAVs but excluding ppl that had a real positive impact and ppl wanting to be in her land tract for me would be a bad decision. If ppl start shit then they get banned or what ever so in the end it will end up with good ppl grandfathered and any one new or who doesn't request it to have to mee the sps req like many ppl in MAV chat meet it im guessing especially now that its like 2 cents most MAVs would prob have 100K but in those exceptions i think we should be letting ppl who were in it and request to stay stay until they are proven to be a problem and not helpful. I think it will really make some ppl mad bc of how there culture is and they would feel disrespected. Im just trying to think of it from different ppls view points bc i would not normally even think twice about a change like this but this article made me think about it and how many loyal ppl we could lose who worked hard just to get the 1000 pack req.
ill take my million sps and vote no what ever that does to help.
I'm staying in the game! Discord is just a place I felt I needed a break with some of these proposals being proposed by people talking from their bags, framing it as a "community" want.
Around Christmas I wrote rules for my future:
If I'm short to get into Mav chat, I'll get it.
The Tavern could use some good company to build it up again. A lot of Mavs think of themselves above the people of Tavern.
It's not the way of my family to exclude people. Being Tri-Racial (Melungeon) in a world that wants to steal my copper color gives me my uniqueness.
This game is helping to heal a family. That is worth more than $$$ USD value to me.
Take my money, give me friendship.
I fight for my kin of all colors.
One World (We Are One) - Official Video by Taboo
Preach it, girl 💜
I'm happy to hear you're not leaving.
Awesome Luna! So happy to hear this!!! You are my friend and I will fight along side you where ever you are!
I will see you in the Tavern when you want to bring your amazing spirit back into Discord :)
Maybe we just need some good moderators, no toxicity is a standard in many Discords, warning 1, warning 2 and bye bye, the next question will be who to give that power :-)
I definitely agree. If we had tough moderation to force Mavs to follow the rules, then I believe that would clean it up the most!
51% voted against proposal. I'm 1 of them. It' not good to fix all the issues withe $$$. I'm not even in Discord. It's just not very interesting to me. I'm not getting into some big tech surveillance when I have Hive to talk to people. !LUV !PIZZA !CTP
@thelunacysystem, @d-zero(1/1) sent you LUV. | tools | discord | community |
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The Tavern is happy to welcome you both anytime, @davemccoy and @thelunacysystem! I don't want to take away anything that was earned or promised.
My point was that if delegation is acceptable, it should be acceptable for all. But to me, the most important part of all of this is a clear message that stronger moderation is needed. We don't want our two main channels to be toxic negativity.
As I said elsewhere, it would probably be wise to have a dedicated space for a "lightly-salted-constructive-criticism-and-letting-off-steam" channel where people can vent when they need. In the main channels, limit it to a double dose of salt - more than two negative comments ... and enforce it, quickly and without further warning.
Bans and Cooldowns are not uncommon in Tavern, but it's a notable day when a Mav gets a cooldown - and that hesitancy to being held accountable for what is said, has created an environment where behaviours are left unchecked.
Tavern being treated differently than Mavs in that way has always bugged me.
I agree that this proposal should really be about getting actual moderation of the chats; and perhaps some SPS for the trouble to those who moderate.
An old game of mine that is still active, they gave the mods a copy of the new pieces to play the game. I like that they did that tbh.
Well, and after yesterday's announcement, it seems that EVERYONE is going to want more SPS 😍
Jezus, 100k SPS is just a few hundred dollars. We all should have this now by playing anyway. This is such great proposal, it will boost sps for everyone. All committed players will reach 100k SPS eventually.
lol... you blabla blabla'd me to tell me this.
I don't know your discord handle in Mavs to know where you're coming from, but its ok, you can have an opinion like everyone else.
ps its a few thousand $s, not a few hundred
How about a Mav sponsorship program? Each Mav could sponsor one person (and recommend others) who are committed, and show up with a good attitude. 😃
I don't know how hard that would be to implement, but I think it would have some merit as a potential solution. I was also ok with letting us delegate our own SPS to those that we felt were qualified to stay.
Simply put, the mavs channel should be held to a higher standard by the moderators then the general channel. I used to enjoy lurking on the conversations in mav chat before i qualified. now that I qualified, i find myself rarely going in there because of all the garbage complaining in there. It would be great to go back to the quality of chat that used to be in that channel. I think tougher more active moderation is the key. I will vote no for this because I have no interested personally of bringing my SPS stake up to 100K not for this and not for rewards...but would really appreciate seeing tougher moderation to bring back the quality of conversation to the channel...[realistically, general chat needs tougher moderation too].
Your humanity have all my respect.
Well said, you rock as always @davemccoy - you point out good reasons to downvote this proposal, there might be others reasons to upvote the proposal as well. In the early days mav chat was the channel to go to, now not anymore due to many reasons, my first reaction was to support the proposal however I do not see staked SPS as important to talk in mav, it should be a combination of all assets in the game at least in my view. Hence i will downvote the proposal.