RE: Splinterlands to utilize Chaos Legion packs for deck creation on the NFTy Arcade platform
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I love the concept of NFTY, I've delegated a decent deck to them to help them attract players. I earn a little less than I normally would, but I'm happy to have a new player be excited to play the game.
For that reason, I like to the see creativity of the SPL team and happy they are using their assets to attract more HUMAN players. I hope they do this with Rebellion as well.
I do understand why people are upset, because 1) this does seem to negate the purpose of the prior DAO vote to burn the packs and 2) it might compete with the smaller rentals to some extent.
But since the team has to run a business, then using THEIR packs in this way to grow is ok with me. I will lose a little rental income, but I'd be thrilled to see NFTY bring in 1000 new players to the ecosystem.
Hi, can you get clarification from the team that this will not happen to Riftwatchers packs? I bought a lot of Riftwatchers cards recently and am worried now.
The team doesnt technically own the RW packs so they wouldnt do anything like this with them without a DAO vote. Since sales from CL go to the SPL team they can do whatever they want with the packs. Technically if they used 2 million of Company funds to buy the packs the money would just go back to them so I honestly dont see the issue. Aggy has said that if this experiment doesnt work they will burn all the decks so no harm no foul IMO. Hope this helps <3
This would be impossible for the Team to do. Since the DAO owned the 3 million pack, it would have to vote on that as a DAO. I see no indication that will happen.
But we should definitely get the team to clarify to ease everyone's concerns.
Yes, I would like a clarification in writing. Thank you. That it MUST go through a DAO vote if it were to be considered.
I don't know if you listened to the AMA but I did ask the question. Aggy clearly confirmed RFW packs are not the teams to decide, instead they would require a DAO vote to pass something like this. So if you want to save and record it for your records, it is around the 2 hrs mark of the video +/- 10 min ...
I believe he answered it exactly to your liking, but of course its not written, so I encourage you to make a copy/save the replay.
This hurts rental markets, devaluing CL decks further
This is a handout to a third party which goes against business principles. Big Govt does handouts
This undermines a prior DAO vote on pack burning.
These are facts. None looks good on paper.
100%
I don't get this decision..
Hey AZ... On two of the three we definitely disagree.
None of these NFTY players use the rental markets at the current time. Plus anyone using the rental market would be foolish to give up 50% of their earnings and all their earned packs to rent a particular card by renting a whole deck. On top of that, these decks are limited to mostly Bronze, which is not where most human players play.
They aren't "giving" the cards to NFTy. They are delegating the cards to NFTy. The amount of earnings that NFTy will get from these decks will be miniscule compared to the dev work they have put in to build their platform. I think they take 5% of the 50% of the SPS earned, or 2.5% of the total earnings in Bronze. That is a very effective ad spend to target new players, and if it doesn't work, then SPL will burn the cards.
This I understand and agree is the case.
Also the rental markets have already been hurt by the loss of the low level bot farms. As a large renter myself, I'm aware the bots rent the majority of the low level cards. This is actually pro-rental market in that it is attempting to target new players to the game. New human players will rent cards as they a) learn the game and b) build their own decks.
While it will be awhile before the humans replace the hoard of lost bots, this program is pro-human player and is a step in the right direction in my opinion
I understand the NFTY players do not use the rental market. However, in a free market scenario, as a 3rd party, NFTY could have used the rental market as an entity. Yes, that would have add cost to their bottom line. However, that would have proped rental market higher. I understand the human player aspects.
Yes, they are delegating cards. For free. It is still a handout. Without it, they would have done it via point 1.
I believe their model is as a "connector" of two parties. They have been around for awhile and had some small success with getting players that own the decks to delegate to players looking to play the decks.
For instance, @leveluplifeph is one that has been a big delegator with 50 decks he's built and attracted new players.
Their constraints were based on the amount of decks that people delegated, not on finding new players to play those decks. But as a middleman, they would never have used the rental market to get the cards and make the decks themselves. Its just not their model.
That's why SPL decided to do this, @aggroed felt it was worth a shot to see if they could leverage this model in hundreds (if not thousands) of new players.
If it works, then it will be a new outlet for all card owners to "earn" on in the future. If it doesn't work, then they burn the cards as intended. I believe the impact on the rental market is insignificant though either way, because these cards will be used by players that wouldn't exist otherwise.
Yes, it is an executive decision. I am fine with it. As I don't have any responsibility :)
If this is a success, chances are we can all benefit somewhat (long shot in my opinion)
If this is a failure, the executives own it.
I completely agree with all these points AZ!!!
Absolutely correct.
in addition I really think if splinterlands want get new player.
The new soulbounded reward cards with the possibility to use not only this reward card but also one of the 32 gladius cards speak IMO not for the idea to generate new player.
What is the fun experience to get beaten cause your opponent has cards you cannot use cause you can neither buy nor rent them ?
The question is why do proposals if Splinterlands won't stick to the results ?
I mean this NFT Arcade can buy this 500k packs in the shop if they want to have them.
NFTY does not own the packs, the SPL team does. Nothing changes in that regard.
The team has just decided to experiment to see if this will bring in new players and help us grow the game. If it works then great. If not, then they will burn all the cards.
I am just curious why somebody should join this game new, as their will be a massive distortion of competition.
Before they add the new 43 reward cards every new player could buy or rent ALL cards he want and has the same chances like a player who play the game for vears, it was just base on skill (if both has all cards), but now Splinterlands changed this, a new player has no chance to buy or rent this 43 reward cards and he cannot use the 32 gladiator cards, so he is disadvantaged, especially as the ability bloodlust is quite usefull in many rulesets and from the "normal" cards only a few have it.
You really think it is a fun experience to be beaten by "old" players cause they have cards you don't own, you cannot buy or rent ?
@udow I don't know if you are just sitting around thinking of things that could go wrong or not, but that's the most ridiculous thing ever.
Players can get cards by playing, the more people play, the more cards they get. If someone starts in the future, then of course they wouldn't have played as much as someone that has played for a long time.
People aren't guaranteed to compete at the top the minute they enter the game. But everyone can compete at some level because there are various levels of people entering the game all the time.
And I think the soulbound rewards are incredible because they are something people have to play to earn them. If you want something (which I do), then its definitely fun to get it. Those that are truly competitive will play and earn them the old fashioned way (with sweat). No long will people get an advantage by just buying their way in regarding all the soulbound cards (reward and glad cards).
But you understand the point that a new player have no chance to have this cards at the start ?
If you than consider that Bloodlust is much stronger in lower leagues than in higher you see that a new player has a huge disadvantage.
Just think if bloodlust add +1 to all stats it means at a max-level card to add to an attack f.e. 33% when increasing them from 3 to 4 but 100% when increasing them from 1 to 2 at level 1 or 25% when increasing the life from 4 to 5 at max-level but 50% when increasing the life from 2 to 3 at level 1.
(When you ask from where I have this states, I have just took states of the Cutter Brieze as an example).
Maybe I just can ask you a question: Would you like with your car to take part in a formula 1 racing ? Would this be fun for you ?
yes I understand, the glad cards are strong. That's why players should want to join a guild and start earning them! That's the point.
And regarding your question, yes of course I would like for ME to have my car be so good I could enter it in formula 1 racing. But I'm old enough to know that it will never do that.
Its ok though, that doesn't mean I don't like having my car. It does what I want it to do, and I don't want to spend the money to make it able to compete as a formula 1 racing car.
So your question is a perfect example actually. Some people want a formula one racing car and are willing to spend the money on it, and some people don't. Same with the game. Some people want to play with what they have and enjoy the cards they have, and others want to have every card and are willing to do what needs to be done (ie. either invest money or time)
okay I think we go too far away from the main point, so maybe just answer my question:
Why should a new customer start a game where he know that from 510 existing cards 75 cards are unavailable for him but available for old players ?
I mean maybe somebody who have ambitions, want invest a lot of money and try to compete with the top-players for the leaderboard, before the lunch of this new reward cards it was possible he could buy or rent every card he want and play with full deck, now he can't.
So why he should under this circumstances play splinterlands and not just choice another game where new players has no disadvantages at the start (if they are ready to spent or invest money) ?
I mean it is not so that I am strong against soulbounded cards, it is okay in brawls and I could imagine to add a separate league where you can use this soulbounded cards BUT: It is not in this way, you can use this soulbounded cards in every ranked battle and in the most tournaments (at least when the tournaments are switched to sets what is only a question from some days).
I mean it is IMO clear, when you take part in a bike race you should come with a bike and not with your car, but it doesn't mean that their cannot be car races. So splinterlands could just create a third league where you can use this soulbounded cards, so that you could choice if you want play in a league with or without soulbounded cards.
If he starts playing when the cards are being earned in ranked play then he will get them on his own like everyone else that plays.
If he starts play after the cards do out of print, he WILL be able to buy them.
So either way a player can get them if they work hard enough or spend enough when they go out of print. I don't think the cards are even 1 season old yet. So that is not even 1% of the total time they will have to earn these.
I can't think of anything more fair myself, and the fact that you and I want these is validation that its good to play and earn them each day. That's what we all should want, people to be excited about playing every day.
ok you are right, at the moment it is no big deal when a "newbie" starts, as the other player also don't have much of this rewards cards cause time to collect was not much.
But what will be in 3 or 6 monthes when the "old" player had a lot of time to collect the reward cards ?
You wore me out... Remember that not everyone will get the exact chances in anything in life. People start when they start and will recognize if they come in halfway into a project, that they participate and will get their chance to be there at the start on the next time a new set drops.
But having said that, we can disagree. I appreciate the dialogue but I have been swamped and unable to keep replying back to each point to you. But much respect Udow, you are a fair debater and ask your questions with a very objective view.
I understand that not everyone will get the same chances, we need not to speak about "exact" because the random determination where you are born (and in what family) can be such a huge advantage (or disadvantage) in life that you can never speak from equal chances.
Also at Splinterlands from the first day on their was no equal chances, the player who has more money can buy more packs, has better cards at higher level and a hug advantage before other players who has less money, but this point is compansated now with the rental market.
So far so good, but now it comes with a change 75 cards into the play. 32 from this card exist since a long time and it was always told before that they are only for brawls, with no other usecase.
Now close your eyes and imagine that you are new to this game, maybe you have enough money and want buy yourself a competitive deck to fight for the leaderboard, but you find out that this 75 cards you cannot buy, you can also not rent and you also find out that exactly in high-Mana-Battles this cards are really essentiell to get a top position in leaderboard.
What you do now ?
OK you can say: Next year comes the new release I will just play collect and than all will be fine.
But maybe you also say: " If this guys here don't want me and my money than I will just look for another game" and a new customer is lost cause of a bad user experience.
In the future maybe it will be even worse with the land expansion with more soulbounded ressources, in the end we will have just a closed society, cause everybody who come new to the game will just very quick see that he won't have any chance to compete with others - Is this your imagine from the future ?
What I also don't understand (correct me if I am wrong) is that this new set of reward cards was just released from splinterlands without any discussion or was their a post or a proposal I have missed where it was a discussion if this is a good idea or not ?
Of course I want new people to come in and play, and earn their way over time to get better and better. I know lots of people that came in after me that are doing well, and I have even brought some of my relatives from the Philippines in for the last few years. Everyone grows at their own pace.
You seem like a very competitive person @udow and want to be at the top. That's a great quality. Keep it. Just remember though that not everyone were like you. No game can exists if only the top players find it fun.
Having said that, I think they are making changes and focusing on making a better user experience. I have been one of the players that has been very vocal about this for a long time. I believe you will see improvements as we go, and getting many of the bot farms to leave is a major step in the right direction. But there has to be more.
Yes they did tell us about the new reward cards, I'm not sure if it was in a AMA/Town Hall or via a post, but I definitely knew they were coming and many players debated them (good and bad) for many weeks before they were released.
Have a great weekend Udow and thanks as always for a nice conversation.
ps... thanks for the beer, that's very nice of you!
Sorry but you don't get my point, probably I explained it not good enough, so let's compare with chess.
I told you that I am a chessplayer, but when I play a match with Magnus Carlsen I will sure loose this match cause of his ability and experience - The chance that I take a draw (not to speak from winning) is vanishingly small, so it is okay. I would have all chances against him and cause of my incapability I lost the game.
But now imagine (to compare with splinterlands) that he play with the Knights with bloodlust who transfer to a queen after they beat something at the chessboard but I play only with regular Knights.
Also if the result would be probably the same: I will loose the game, I would not like the second variant and if he ask me for a second match in the first case I would accept immediately but in the second case I would refuse.
Maybe you get now the point, it is not that I need to be competitive with others, if they are better, have better skills it is okay if they win, but not if they win cause they have the bloodlust-knight and I must play with the normal knight.
!beer
!beer
(n I try it again, before I was out of beer as you are limited how often you can call it in 24 hours :-) )
Maybe I can listen your oppinion about this battle from a wellknown splinterlands-teammember: https://splinterlands.com?p=battle&id=sm_LzqRwAcftUAiJfM9vGOw&ref=udow
!BEER
View or trade
BEER.Hey @davemccoy, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @udow for you. Enjoy it!Do you want to win SOME BEER together with your friends and draw the
BEERKING.