SPS Governance Proposal - Boost Land Survey Chances By Burning DEC/DEC-B
As most of you already know, the Splinterlands team is working on the land surveying feature which will allow players who own land deeds to survey their land and determine the terrain type, rarity, resources, and special buildings that their land contains.
This proposal being put to a vote by the SPS stakeholder community will allow players surveying their land to pay 10,000 (10k) DEC tokens (roughly $6 at current prices) OR 10,000 (10k) DEC-B tokens per plot surveyed in order to gain double the normal chances of getting Rare, Epic, and Legendary plots as well as double the normal chance of getting a magical or an occupied plot. Please note that this will be one single option/payment to boost BOTH the chances of getting a more rare plot and the chances of getting more rare resources. All tokens spent for the land survey bonus would be burned.
For some context, there are 150k total land plots in existence. Let's assume that 100k of those get surveyed within a few months of surveying going live and choose to get the bonus. Let's also assume that it is almost entirely paid for with DEC-B (since it would be the cheaper option) and that half of the DEC-B used for the land survey boost was bought with DEC and half was bought with VOUCHER tokens. In this scenario we will have 400M DEC burned (about 6.6% of the total supply) and 2.5M VOUCHERs burned (about 35% of the total supply) just on the land survey bonus alone.
Please note that we intend to have minimum guarantees for the number of plots of each rarity and the number of plots that have a magical resource or are occupied within each Tract. This means that within each Tract of land, there will be a minimum guaranteed number of Rare plots, Epic plots, Legendary plots, plots with a Magical resource, and Occupied plots. If the boost is purchased to survey all plots within a Tract in a single transaction, then the minimum guaranteed amounts will be doubled for that Tract.
The SPS token economy is based almost entirely around there being significant demand for both the DEC and VOUCHER tokens, which primarily comes from the utility of those tokens within the Splinterlands game. While we expect the land expansion, among a number of other features, to provide significant DEC and VOUCHER sinks in the future, those changes are not likely to be available until later in the year. Land surveying, however, is expected out within the next couple of months and we feel that the land survey boost concept provides a great opportunity for the increased utility of DEC and VOUCHER tokens within the game to begin sooner rather than later, while also taking up to half of all DEC-B tokens available in the first sale out of the system.
Generally, we feel that it is extremely important that new sinks for both DEC and VOUCHER tokens are continually added into the Splinterlands game where appropriate, and we are asking for the support of the community to do so. We see only upside for SPS token holders from this proposal.
For those staked SPS holders who are also land holders, we encourage you to consider the long-term value and utility of your tokens over a short-term additional cost. Especially considering that, through the DEC-B mechanism, large staked SPS holders will likely have enough VOUCHER tokens to cover the majority - if not all - of the land survey bonus costs, effectively making it free (which is one of the intended benefits for staking SPS).
Thank you for participating in SPS DAO Governance @splinterlands!
You can place or monitor SPS Stake Weighted votes for and against this proposal at the link below:
Link to this Pre-Proposal
Updated At: 2023-01-24 14:20 UTC
How much will I get and what should I do for getting the chance?
Is this thing a preproposal?
Because if it is it already has 273 votes so thats probably just curation trails at work
don't worry about autovotes, it won't have any impact
What about a dec lottery where 1/2 is burned when you buy atiket to say win a plot a day do one and see how much burns or havave the dao buy packs and make decks to rent for ppl or have a dao guild
they oculd use it to buy chaos packs and no =that doesnt work
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In order to meaningfully vote for or against this proposal we have to know the base chances of getting a legendary/epic/rare or common plot (likewise for magical or occupied). This will allow us to make some calculations and figure out what we are getting for the price we are paying for the potions. Please consider updating this post with the base chances for the rarities, or writing a comment about it. Thank you.
Yes please! We need good information to make good decisions!
If those numbers are met it would be a good burn. 400M DEC burned (about 6.6% of the total supply) and 2.5M VOUCHERs burned (about 35% of the total supply)
no if you need to pay for them
Generally, we shouldn't ask for additional money for a product that is already sold. This goes against the value and integrity of what Splinterlands stands for. Downvoted to express my opinion.
This time I have to agree with you. Land was sold ages ago, without the mention that it shall have another money sink coming in.
this is the way a healthy debate should work. There will be issues we will agree and there will be others when we won't.
You are a good guy @azircon, even we had disputes for a long time. Let's make SPL great again :-)
Thank us for your sps rom land it comes from a allocation that was part mine.
But i was fine with it bc it would help the whole game
Where was my healthy debate insread of your barrading me. I would have talked about it but you told me to stay out lol like come on u need to apoligize for being a ass for zero reason but u didnt like my comment about how old land holders are up 10X and got 10 worth of sps. If u are not one of them then i get it
How much sps did you get did it cover the cost you paid for land if it did and likely did if you bought for 10-20 bucks a plot and you prob have a profit from that plus a 5-10X gain sell some of that shit make some money put it in something else right now like if you like glx its returning a crap load you can prob start buying a plot a day if you stake a good amount at least this year. This year is where you have a do over if you made some mistakes in the first airdrop.
I like that you care about my investments and that you draw me a plan for my money.
How much land do you have? If you don't own a single plot, I would suggest stopping dealing with this topic, as it does not concern you.
I have over 500K in this company you ass hole. Between my 10,480 shares of the equity ownership in common stock my 18 nodes 25 land plots, 40K in cards, 720K sps 189K glx , 2550 mlspa packs, TD, FORGE im invested in every aspect. Dont you ever speak to me like that i don't dystropept ppl and you will not be doning that again dont you hae anything better toi do did you look at my other acccouts to im probably sure i have more asets than you and have a larger stake in this games assets. Ive been here since the beginning and am a OG player prob know much more about this game than you. Your basically a fly talking to a giant compared to you. And not bc i have alot of assets bc only small ppl lash out instead of discuss if you were in front of me bet you would not open your mouth so cocky and arrogant behand that screen,
Ill likely be buying a tract and my interests whether i had land or not still impact me so i would vote every ounce of my power to do what i want. I want whats best for all my assets. As im a owner - silent partner everyting concerns me
So why dont you take your advice shut ur mouth
This 100 % concerns me if you can say how it does i invite you to. Why are you messaging me i don't know you. Be one thing if you were not a cock but i dont associate with ppl like u. I only associate with ppl on my level and you clearly are not there bc you cant have a civil discussion. Are you in YGG
If i was saying anythign its what im doing and why cant ppl actually discuss shi but hurt karaens these days, then you find out i own everything and your a idiot and did not look before you jumped. DId you read my response, jsut be i respond its not advice im jsut putting ideas out there so fucking apoloigize for coming at me for no reson
No for all the reasons i said im a stakeholder in everyy aspect
So were done right i can comment on assets i own right
Well, I'm always in for a debate. If you have that amount of skin in the game, I have to go with you about it. For the sake of privacy, delete or edit your name out of the comment. I care about it a lot.
Regarding the assets in SPL, s mall disclosure, I have above 5.5 mil collection power and a tract, beside the others, so this can comfort that we both know the game and are heavy invested.
The reason, and it has to be a reason for a decision, is that the land is not done yet. Economics are not set, we don't know what it looks like, and we are asked to pay again for it.
The proposal is not a constructive one, as it punishes people who are not paying for the land survey, as the initial investment loses half it's value. There is another proposal going on, which is basical another DEC sink, where the SPS stakers are rewarded with the possibility to buy a card, depending on the stake. This is a good example how a DEC sink shall look like.
im not totally disagreeing with you either i think we could do a diff sink to. like for example maybe a land terrain change like a skin to mak it look cooler some ppl want that
i dont like the exrra rares
I just want the fly wheel to go
I have no loyalty to this sink if we do another one
Surprisingly I am with you this time, 100% in agreement
You see Uwe, that is the way life should work. We don't have to agree on everything, as long as we agree on something. My heart is in the right place, no matter what you imagine :)
Yes man - i always been sure your heart is in the right place, however might disagree on things within this game and in general on Hive - but what united us is we both want these things to succeed as a whole.
its more like cost of operating your product that should out do the costs with revenue there is risk in all
why do you think everyone is buying sps to make sure that the game doesnt get fucked why would you not want the flywheel to go off sps will rocket if we hit .1 even ill take about 100K lol why is any of it bad
I'd feel better about this proposal if that 10k served as a "down payment" that could be used toward building upgrades in the future. I'd be willing to burn even more DEC now as a down payment. That guaranteed value feels better than a chance at better rarity.
This I actually like as I haven't had much luck with potions.
Yes, this idea seems to satisfy both the people voting for this and those saying they should allow purchasing buildings earlier instead, wish they saw this before launching this proposal
That's exactly what DEC-B is...
I would say financing for land and digital assets is a third party thing one of which im working on a interesting approach to owning land, nodes, high value rentals, full guilds that have been leveled up or purchased leveled up to bot when no member is playing ranked , members will be part of the clubs stream and do it 24/7 like spl tv but multiple games not just spl as are first no spl game is illuvium a game i think will be huge. Also there will be real time performance metrics available to the leaders and then reported daily for the club and every member will have read only to the financials and threy can look at detail compare to on chain and bank statements to make sure if they want. It should be pretty easy to figure out. Also will be running other money making opportunities which will not be disclosewd and a NDA will be signed as they are very uncommon and having to many ppl do it would ruin are roi. This has nothing to do with SPL or blockchain but is a way that will make are group a lot of money and ive tested this myself and talked to hundreds of ppl about it and thy all gave me there contact to call them when its ready to do and were talking easily get 1000 dollars if you in the us and if you complete the whole thing about 50K but that will take much longer to do and best part you can repeat each year. If your in the US and money is the prob i can honestly help and if you ask why i would its bc i get the same amount of money for helping you get it so im highly motivated as you can imagine bc i get money from every person as i should bc i dont see anyone doing this and about 99% have no clue that you can or it works. Ppl here accept a few smart ones think its a scam i can tell you with 100% certainty based on the fact im a owner in the company which would look awful for one and have terrible consequences for me financially for my investment in the game which is significant anyone can look up the value of my assets in the game at bcarolan639,bckc-capital-llc,byebye,token-bazooka1 and there are more but have no assets yet. Also starting a large token voting project between hive, steem , and many other chains using AI which will get us 100s of posts a day in images , text, video etc all based on the most popular content with little effort and it will be quality and attract alot of votes from all the curators giving us id say a good amount of cash flow which we can use to disgtribute to stakers of capital raise new DAO units for specific projects were doing they can buy the project sub dao like one could be a guild were raising for and when they buy the token stake it they get x portion of the income coming in from hive engine tokens which you can make some good money on by setting buy on low bids and sell for 5-10X on the ask. Been playing around with NFTM i own like 400 million nftm so i can sell until i move the market and push it into my low buy order bc taking out the market maker bots is easy when you have that many tokens out of the supply. SPT is another good one you get votes then sell on the ask often 2-3X the bid where you set a buy order dont use the swap.
Maybe I'm over simplifying this but wouldn't doing this simply add to inflation later while only doing a temp quick fix to get DEC burned. You'd be producing far more resources off of lands then initially thought which means far more tokens from lands which will drive the price down of all of those land tokens.
That being said my vote on this is going to be no unless someone can explain how this has a long term benefit.
exactly double down for 10K is way too much hell no
No, it won't change the amount of resources produced from the land at all. All of that hasn't even been figured out yet, so we will determine the amount of resources that should be produced from the land when we get to that point (soon!) and then work backwards to find out how much each type/rarity of plot should produce. So this would actually burn tokens without any inflation whatsoever.
This says to me that if I choose not to do it then my tracts have half the amount of rare plots. Then when you do this and work backward to plan out resources. I will earn around half the amount of resources as the guys that did do this. That isn't optional for anyone with a serious amount of land. You have added a tax that lowers the production of my land in half if I don't pay it.
you halve the chance even if you reject the proposal. so that's not really an argument. their reason for rejecting is that they don't want to pay for it, and that's why no one else should have that chance! so they want to force their decision on others!!! so it is because of their character and not because of good reasons....
Ah ok makes sense then. In that case it makes sense and could potentially burn a fair amount of DEC/Vouchers in the process. Since there's no set numbers yet land owners really don't know what they are getting yet and thus in reality nothing has changed. Other then the potential of the survey being better if paid. It does kind of almost require a payment. I'm still a little on the fence about it though since it's almost like asking for more funds for plot owners in order to better there plots. However the flip side of it means doing it on your plots should give it more value anyways so the value is there in either selling the plot or harvesting on the better plot.
I need to do more thinking but I'm leaning a little more towards a yes now and mainly because I want to see the game returned back in value. That being said it's going to be up to the company still to help in restoring and keeping that value as well. I think things got a little too crazy in terms of giving away stuff and the bots just took advantage. Now we are doing with the over supply from all of those what I would consider "fake" accounts.
we only get more value compared to people who choose not to pay. Matt said there is just 1 pie we all share. If no one pays each tract should have the same amount of the pie. But if just one tract plays that guy just twice as much till the next guy now they both get more and so on but if we all pay then we all split that same pie
if that's really the case, then i guess i'll have to rethink my opinion!
From what I'm understanding if you do not purchase the potions for a "tract" you will get the standard amount of rares, epics, etc. But if you look at the wording if you purchased potions for you're tract in one transaction you would receive double the normal amount of land types. So tract owners actually can double the amount of land types gauranteed. The plebs have to keep their fingers crossed.
Wait until you can purchase the right amount if you think the ROI is worth it I am honestly focused on using the variation of sps/GLX to swap income from sps staking and sps nodes to glx when the swap is equal or lower than sps and GLX is still producing ridiculous APY so over time for the airdrop i will be swapping half of my million sps which i already started to do to get half a million sps this week if prices are cooperating then use glx to buy back the sps or dec if sps is not favorable. The key now is to get cash flow and soulbound earning bots/human splits to get as many as you can of gladious and soulbound so you can charge a higher split for the larger amount of cards you have on the accounts you own. So this will bring longer term value to ppl with a larger amount of assets to re deploy to farm the most cards and dont even need bots can use private agreeements to have a really good player battle for 10-20 guild accounts 2X a week for brawls and get a tournament expert to play all accounts in as many tournaments as they can and i have enough sps to get the ppl in the top levels so should be able to create a boost for my self in cash flow and rental income as well as benefit new players as they will make more than they would have. Cash flow on going is king in the game bc it allows you to withdraw some as well as significantly expand your collection right now. Also earn ridicoulous amount of gladious and soul bound cards to give ppl with large investments a way to profit from this quite a bit and help new players get a leg up as well and profit from the best players by giving them the best assets and im guessing the best set ups will be set up privately with a custom split based on what the contractor is willing to do like will they play all brawls for say 5 guilds or 150 accounts so 300 battles a month brawls, a bunch of tournaments and battle daily if there better than the bot and then the bot will be moved to a account where the human players dont play daily so were always earning and advancing. Samee approach taken to GLS when it is released which is why im investing heavily in that to gain the assets cheap able to benefit from all future partnerships by owning stadiums and getting money from everything. Then finally in about 6 months will have the performance to launch a fund to fund a guild alliance if the ppl i talked to privately are not enough but i think they are. Will be recruiting programmers, accountants, lawyers, project managers, community managers, guild managers experts to direct there games division and are responsible for finding out how to make new cash flow streams and getting them implemented. There will be a base split and bonuses for over achieving and everyone who implements a successful idea will be a partner in that subdao division getting a direct split from there efforts 50/50. If ppl want equity i will be doing a funding round where votes are how you get equity by voting for 1 month at a time on posts on a specific account for that fund or division and you will get the x % associated with it. That will provide cash flow forever or as long as were alive. It will be restricted equity for 5 years then a 5 year 1/5 per year release in you buy in private rounds for way cheaper than the IDO which will be priced and released slowly so the price does not get diluted and we get the funding to add the proper assets.
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Seems like if this is voted for positively.. than you will almost certainly HAVE TO pay the 6 dollars to increase your chances. depending on the number of people who do that, it will either negate the effect, or push all of the "common" plots to the back of the line and to the people who dont pay the $6.
So depending on how many people do it.. seems like if you do it without, than you are almost guaranteed to get a common.
Excuse my long winded reply, but there are a lot of issues here.
1. Regarding vouchers (for DECB) making it essentially "free" to get these, let's consider some actual math here.
I have 1k plots (not even top 25), that's 10M DECB needed to get the survey boosts. 10M DECB / 200 per voucher is 50k vouchers needed. I (used to) have 2M+ SPS staked for a long period of time,(top 25) yet I have nowhere near 50k vouchers.
That's at least partially due to the fact that I've been using those vouchers for their original intended purpose of giving access to "all the cool stuff." But it's certainly NOT essentially free to anyone who hasn't been hodling every voucher they get from staking.
2. These have been talked about a LOT as being an optional thing. Making them double your chances for every better rarity and resource is NOT optional for anyone in their right mind.
3. "We see only upside for SPS token holders from this proposal"
Really? Because I've been unstaking and selling my SPS like a mad man to try and have enough DEC to cover this unexpected expense. Not sure how that translates to something good for SPS holders. Certainly not good for my SPS holding.
4. The people who bought land in the original sale paid anywhere from 7.5k to 20k DEC for their land plots. Those of us who have held our land even through the $1000 peak are arguably your most dedicated supporters. Tacking on an additional 10k DEC(/B) to our purchase cost is extremely disheartening and hurtful to your biggest supporters.
There are other things I could talk about as well, but they've been hashed out in the discord quite a bit, so I'll refrain from writing it all here.
In summary, this is not a good idea. Build an enjoyable engaging land gameplay and you'll get your "DEC to par" dream to come true. Trying this thinly veiled tax on the most exciting thing in the Splinterlands ecosystem is not going to help anything here.
This is an unethical step towards the small players who have remained loyal throughout the years
To even suggest it is a slap in the face
We have all bought things and were small players started at 50 bucks i had to buy things why should everyone now get rewarded before the ppl who have held sps though a large drop and are still holding. Or why don't the sps holders get a 1/8 piece of all land production if ppl want to keep up from getting a benefit weave all waited for. PPL that cant afford land they rent it or rent it with a group its the same as a real economy were not going to have everyone equal ppl like me who have been here a long time obv have a lot in this and don't deserve to be devalued maybe time staked should factor int the vote weight to. Plus nodes at a sps conversion to x votes nodes produce sps there prices go down again to it impacts like most players in the game. The players with no assets or little are being selfish hurting the majority of the game. There are scholorships there is nifty they are working on everything. I wonder if we staked some stable coins to fund some rent dicounts for newer playes like rent vouchers until they get assets.
The only thing I disagree with is the bit at the end, suggesting that Land is the most exciting thing in the ecosystem. We're already 2+ years late on land, and the "overly optimistic" roadmap only has the very very basics scheduled this year, too.
When will we see the immersive experience Nate keeps shilling in the town halls? Let's be real. Not optimistic, let's be real. It is going to be 2026 ish at this rate, if ever.
SPS and nodes look at the top players moves we have glx node drop why is everyonre buyinh assloads of them
Thats what im buying im actually selling my land buy like 5 plots to hold incase it rips then buy a tract later
Just to add context to this 10M DEC-B figure for those reading
10MDEC-B=8M DEC or 50K Vouchers
50K Vouchers is obtained in 1200 days for staking 1M SPS (vouchers only), or 137 days including SPS + GLX rewards 600 or 69 days for 2M etc (at current drop rates, would be obtained faster through past rates)
1M Staked SPS voucher only reward would yield you 1 Plot survey per 29 Hours or per 3hours 20minutes for all rewards
8M DEC = $4950 (at 1k DEC = 0.61875, voucher cost is slightly less)
1K plots = $130,000 (This is based on last market price, which is highly illiquid)
Tax rate is around 3.8% (very subject to price movements)
You can simply times amount of plots owned by $4.95 to get USD amount (current prices, using DEC-B discount).
I could do all mine in a day then the nodes take care of that. Thats wehre coucher value comes in to. Or what if vouchers go along with GLGT maybe for the pack sale
This is a great comment and you won my vote over.
Changed from Yes to No
What if all 150K land got 1000 decb with it or someting like locked for 3 years and it turns to X
I think without knowing the other costs related to land, it is unfair and onerous to ask for 10K for each plot which would make land owners holding for years now need to wait more to get them all surveyed when available. I would rather higher costs for building, staking, maintenance which are yet to be decided instead of the potion.
have ppl that can prove that its depremental to them why not stay a littl charity fund for new players i bet the dao and all the top palyers would add
for pppl on the fence have a payment plan over a year
As the proposal is now, I’m voting against it:
What are the chances of getting a rare, epic, legendary and/or occupied land at the moment, and what will the change be with an extra potion? Furthermore, how is this going to influence the chances of those that don’t use a potion? And last but not least: it doesn’t feel ok to pay extra for an expensive product that’s already been bought.
I understand why adding a potion for land is a cost (since people won't want to be left behind). So I can see the point of view of those that will oppose this. That's why I'm super glad they included vouchers in DEC-B.
Anyone with land, received SPS. If that SPS was staked, then they got vouchers. They can use the vouchers for these potions, which is a big benefit to staking SPS.
I definitely see the team's point of view that they feel land should have many sinks to give the players that invest in it an edge over those that don't.
Everyone should vote for what they feel is right, but I'm definitely happy that ANY player with staked SPS can get this nice benefit if they held their vouchers.
I know many players don't think staking SPS is worth it, they feel they are getting worthless vouchers. Well if this passes, then those players that staked because they were told vouchers would give players "cool things" will be rewarded.
what if we had enough potions like for 50% and the potions were all shot out of a large animated cannon at random land plots and they have random dec in it some 50K some 2 and also include a chaos pack in ach dec missle and when it blows up you get the dec and need to make up the diff
creative mind there @bcarolan639 :) ... I have no idea on the economics of that idea, but love your spirit and ingenuity! :)
it would be interesting to know how high the chances are, so that you know what the double means
I have two tracts and have been holding them for a long time. While I have gotten a lot of stuff for holding them once again it seems if you end cards and land and kept your SPS you are asked once again to fix the mistake of giving too much weight to DEC in the airdrop. This inflated the supply and the value. Then it all crashed. Now I have to come up with 1200 dollars to add to just burn it away or face owning 2 tracts with half the rare plots of someone who spends it. I isn't the end of the world but it is a bummer to have do it.
The company is a business and so are the DAOs which are ment to create value for stake holders of the DAO and the Company I happen to be both and I would like to make more money for my investment along long time ago before land was even a thing and the game was in its infancy raising capital for its seed round and with out the investors money then this game prob wouldnt be here so honestly investors in the seed round, Nodes , DAOs, Land and anything that allows you to make money in the game should get a piece of the action and a decent piece or they will all dump and assets are worthless. Then you really have a issue.
I am for this as I want the option to get rarer lands. The value this brings to me not only in land but an improved economy as a whole seems like a no brainer. The community needs to be all in on voting for any sinks we get thrown at us as long as they are optional.
It is not really optional, if you double your chances in getting a better plot.
Just like it is with potions for card packs.
You really feel that you NEED to use them or you get left behind.
that's why you reject the chance from the start?. where is the difference now if you reject the potions later if they should exist? the only difference is that you have taken away the chance from all people. because you don't want to pay for the chance, no one is allowed to have this chance?
You should make able to pay that cost with SPS too so people could burn some sps , otherwise people will just sell the sps for DEC making the sps price to go down
goood for now buy more then fix it i need 5x more before i have 1 million now which im swapping to glx while price is lower to get 1% a day and less than 10O days ill be able to double or more 1 million glx which i can swap to sps occasionally when glx price exceeds sps and buy glx when sps exceeds glx for this year up to 50-100 days before drop end. THen will reduce risk or if the flywheel goes off sell a bunch to profit on like a quarter of my holdings. Then 75% withdrawals to my bank to redeploy and automate it with a 25% earning reinvestment from me and spend much less time with automated money making and spend a few hours a week playing again bc i like it and have since 1000 -5000 players i got involved and bought in to the equity as well which is cool now that it s worth a lot more and im one of the few owners of the company and all the games as well since they are owned by SPL inc. Also big DAO holder , node holder, only 25 plots of land but saving for a tract trying to figure out the ROI and if its worth it. I think i would rather use my GLX swap to by a runi a day or every 2-3 days. Buy nodes to as well prior to GLX drop. Stopping my rentals other than the high ROI cards and some of the rare cards contorl the supply with a group of say gold lux holders like me control the supply of rentals on the mkt get a premium and then do off mkt rentals for less than the boosted mkt. Can basically do what value add apts do raise the rent which the DCF model exponentially raises prices to then can sell the cards one at a time for boosted prices. v Just like gold alpha now there manufactured prices barely any volume and a couple ppl still have a thousand or so packs to sell and cards to sell. I have a few but thank god not alot bc prices died.
Why is no one talking about the minimum guarantee of rarities, magical resources and occupied plots in a Tract?
Land was always created with scarcity in mind, hence the 150k max supply. Why would you strip all the value away from it if it is just a simulation and not actual RNG? This completely kills the value of any rarity. No one asked for this.
This is in itself a massive change to the land whitepaper I agree.
I do think (subjective opinion) however the majority of players prefer guaranteed airdrop cards, even if it does inflate supply.
This would advantage smaller land owners and disadvantage large region sized land owners
I prefer less but if i can get on the side of having more then i dont care as long as the game still is fun and i can make money on it.
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So you are telling, that you want a minimum of $6 for the land to be kept as it was initial planned?
Like most in here, the land was already paid for, stop getting money sinks out of our pockets, for stuff that is not ready.
land paid for it self
A couple of days ago I had 20 plots. I was against the proposal.
I sold all of them by now for SPS. I am now for the proposal.
Land potions are broken.
I'm a Region Owner and I fully support this proposal.
If nobody is willing to spend then this whole thing is going to fail.
I'm more than willing to spend, I'd even be open to potions costing more than 10k DEC. I voted no for the proposal in its current state and would prefer revisions take place before it goes to final proposal.
I would rather have something guaranteed for the DEC I'm spending, rather than just a chance at better RNG. I have 25 plots, so I don't have the luxury of the tract+ guarantee. If the land potion gave some other benefit (early reveal, chance at a totem, a promo card, anything really), I'd be much happier to spend on it.
No potions for Land please, it makes no sense aside from wanting to squeeze more money out of players in order to help fix the mistake made of printing DEC into oblivion. Basically, early investors paid 10$-20$ for land plots at the time there was no guarantee whatsoever that it was going to be a good buy. There was also no indication whatsoever at that time of potions that would increase the chance on rarity. Now it's ~10$ extra just to have a higher chance of rarity or in other words not to see your chances decrease a lot compared to those that do pay extra.
This for me is a hard NO.
$6 in DEC is roughly 230 SPS
Land currently gives roughly 1.3 SPS a day
Splinterlands is asking for 177 Days out of 1,825 (9.6%!!!!) worth of your SPS rewards and if you don't pay then your rewards will effectively reduce (because others will inevitably pay)
If everyone who owns land buys the potions the average rewards remain the same. The only profit from this comes from those who either cant afford or are unwilling to pay.
Over all that was my point i got cussed out by some random guy lol
So many tales of woe. My heart goes out to those with 1k+ plots and feeling the strain of this extra expense to get something more shiny and new.
In reality, you already made bank so stop whining.
No one is forcing you to improve your land.
But for the less greedy among us, who only own a few plots purchased at a remarkable $140-$400 price point, $6 (current) is barely a sniffle.
We welcome the opportunity to get something shinier, for such a low cost. Thank-you SL.
Can I suggest you Land Barons complaining so much, perhaps sell a few plots to improve your chances and embrace the potions. Because I'm sure the bulk of the new players would love the opportunity to get some cheaper land around here.
i get the arguments of why not. Hurts even more as pressure is being put on staked SPS hodlers with the proposal of a DAO tax.
Figure i would have bought the same amount of land that i did even if i knew there was gunna be a land tax tacked on, so voting yes as see potential benefits.
EDIT: Changed my vote to NO. There are better ways to tax the community then this. Appreciate those that reached out to discuss.
Just no...this would make anyone that does not have massive DEC stashes lose a lot of value
Stop trying to just spread any wealth to the top 1%
I think this shouldn't be a yes/no question. The random (or so it seems) 10k DEC potion makes it hard for me to vote yes, even though I support some dec burning in the form of land potions. 10k is just too much and will have negative effect (more people won't use it from the people with 100+ plots). It should have been given a consideration of several price options, as i belive at 5k potion 3x people will use it and if it's around 3k, probably EVERYBODY that has a land plot will, which in turns will lead to WAY more dec burning, than shoving that huge ammount down the land owners throats. For 10k potion I vote against. For 5k, I vote for and of course anything less than that, hell yeah!
I could do without the extra expense, so it's a NO for me (not that it will make any difference to the outcome).
Yes for me bc it should have a cost to operate and give the DAO and company revenue for what they developed what game is free and your land if bought early you deff made money 100- 50X if you were smart and sold at least half at above 1K i fucked up and missed it would have mad e a millon on it but i bought around 100 and sold at 1000 on some so did ok with a 10X. My seed shares provided 25K worth of sps in the beg which i sold around a buck bought back at .2 and kept staking so took a nice profit on that worth more than what the stock costs and still own that which is worth a lot more as it owns spl, glx, td and has interests in many other dapps and assets as well in the games producing cash flow for the company. Also when the exit does come maybe 5 years from now or if its huge bull market my shares will prob sell for around 1 million from 5 K cost which was 5xed after a year Nodes will be a huge value now when sps inceases watch nodes rip to 5000 plus and i hopefully will have 40 by then sell 20 for 100K keep 10 take the profit and invest in outside assets as well as spl games and new games to expand the investment group. IM looking at platying it like a hedge fund would as well as i have my gamer account where i play bc i like it which is why i originally got in this and invested in the company bc its a sick game. Im so close to getting my vision completed for guilds or at least the first 3 to test various bots and then will test out kapital dao nifty has a spot to manage some already as well. I was going to try earlier but a set back of 15K being stolen from me with runi scam by the fake aggy account. So i had to wait and sell some tings i didnt need to get more of the things that operate and own the game bc that is how money is made as well as flipping cards and packs etc.
"What game is free" really? like thousands and thousands of them...
Aside from that this isn't free either way. It's also meant to be a game not just an investment or revenue source.
After reading all your comments and going through your posts I hope you dont have much sway over anything because you are the last person I would want coming up with ideas for the longevity of the game.
Ps voting your own shitposts from your own accounts is a douchebag move.
spl i played free basically when i started
but when they mature they need loot to
im raising capital for a airdrop for everyone lol so do you not want it
its my apital do do what i want with
i know exactly what im doing it for buy decks so new ppl can get in sorry the decline tapped me out and soon you wont recognize em im going to post hundreeds with a AI progaram
They will be beautiul
im actually pretty smart not right all the time but why did you not get what i said or you just dont like it if you dont like it fine but you dont ned to insult
i could dig though you prob find some shit
why dont ppl keep discussion about the vote if thy want to throw a insult
Its ment ot be both i am a player who is a investor so its a revenue source for me; I put a lot of capital in here so i can do what i want with it if i can make money playing who are you to say i cant
I would raise capital by asking but most ppl dont really understand but there are alot that do so im funding my club with my parners to help the game so if voting to make more faster to put right back in is bad to get decks fgor new ppl is bad ok im bad lol
This is basically the Michael Scott Paper Company going back to their customers and asking them to pay more money after already completing the transaction. That's a definite NO from me.
while I understand the problems with this proposal, I think the team is right in focusing now on creating more sinks as this will fix the majority of the economy and benefit everyone
No to land potions that must be used at the time of surveying.
Yes to a "Surveyor mechanic" "that can "discover" rarities of a land at any given time during its existence.
The same way as you would level up a building in a guild hall, except your "surveyor" explores your land to find rarer properties that may not have been identified at the initial survey.
This could burn even more DEC over time than a single use only potion; and is an additional mechanic to allow "second hand" plot owners to get value out of land that may be put to market by existing holders.
This is a good move to raise the price of DEC, but it would ultimately devalue the price of rare, epic, and legendary plots, as they will become more common with multiple explorations.
You can tweak it.
Common Lands could be surveyed once.
Rare three times.
Legendary five times.
That way you'd discover the rarity when you "re-survey", or get a conclusive report of "yup, nothing here."
i see that being bad lol actually tht reight there is like communism are stuff iwll all be worth less
WHY A NO VOTE
Doubling the rarity chance of a land plot should be worth much more than 10k DEC that seems crazy.
The reality is we don't actually know what double rarity will benefit the users... so the previous point is an assumption that double rarity chances is too much based on past rarity implications of other items in Splinterlands but there is a chance it may not be worth the paid cost... the point is we have no clue what it will mean and so it's not the time to do such a feature.
Paying for a chance increase is much less interesting and much more divisive than paying for land development and buildings on the land... that is a much better focus and I and others are willing to wait for these DEC sinks and not rush things just because DEC is temporarily down because of present lack of demand for DEC based products.
First tell us what rarity means before giving a paid feature to double the chances of a more rare version of that feature.
The term "Potion" seems uncreative and lazy and a term could be much more related to land, surveying, development. Leads me to believe that it just doesn't seem really thought out, it could have had a much more appealing presentation.
Explorers of praetoria have returned to their home lands with fanciful stories of the lands they have visited ... a rough map of the vast continent has been created and wealthy citizens of the Splinterlands have rushed to own a piece of these lands sight unseen. It has been well over 2 years since the first explorers have journeyed to praetoria and agreed to sell off large chunks of the land while leaving many plots open to public use, conservation or for the previous inhabitants. Now groups of surveyors are returning using some of the funds from the land sales of years past to survey and classify the lands of each of the 150k plots of land.
Thus the surveying of the land is a free exercise that was counted as part of the original cost. However it is noted that with the vast amount of land to survey these crews will be working quickly and they are unexperienced crews of surveyors, seeing that their homelands have been mapped and surveyed for hundreds of years if not longer. The work and skills of this group of free surveyors is being lambasted as simply not adequate for some of the new owners of Praetoria who are launching a campaign to enlist an elite team of Dark Elvish surveyors who will use their astute understanding of the lands and magical powers to do a much better job recognizing and more importantly documenting and classifying the new land of praetoria. Their services are not cheap and we these teams will demand 20k Dark Energy Crystals in order to survey the land... they say the Dark Energy is needed for the actual process they will use in their investigations into each of the plots.
For their work there is NO guarantee of success as some land is very straight forward and even the original surveying crews would get it right. But the dark elves are guaranteeing a doubled chance your lands are more rare and valuable. Not a doubled rarity but a doubled chance of an increase in rarity.
What does a more rare land mean... it means greater production of the land and while the actual production increase is not specifically known it is said that it could be very worth your consideration of hiring this elite team to survey your land.
(This is the part where you can also share some thoughts about what increased land may be able to do and perhaps in less specific but interesting storytelling fashion)
I agree, and have a more lore friendly version in my comment to the proposal.
The company also need s to make money to and i care bc i own part of the company as well. Im involved in every financial aspect of this game and I want all areas to do well which is why im not to mad about the card price decrease bc it will come back with new players bought in and now have significant gains now and will be able to unload apporeciated cards on them when they have disposable income for cards like untamed A/B etc maxed and possibly sell my gold lux or try and create a gold lux investment club where the 50 holders control the gold luxes cards on the rental market have rents jump bc of scarcity then price jumps and some are sold off or rented out long term for say 75% of the rent and extra long term like a year for 65% of the rentals on the market. Right now rent is two low for them. Can do the same with any card that is good and if you can get alot for cheap with a group you can keep the rental markets for those cards from crashing and a high roi for the club.
Also land clubs for lack of a better word to pool x earnings a day to buy plots and drop them all over to hopefully hit a spot that makes it valuable to a larger organization and you can raise prices a lot or rent for a great rate if it interrupts there operations like you own the castle or keep you can have likely serious leasing price power. The rare resources you can rent to there miners and get a passive cut as i dont really want to buy the assets to mine things i just want to supply the land and collect spell cards and a base rent.
These are valid points except for the last one. The term "potion" doesn't appear at all in the proposal. It's just been used as a placeholder since what is being proposed here is similar to the existing potions in the game. This proposal isn't about lore and naming, it's about whether or not the community supports the concept. If it passes, then there will definitely be the appropriate lore and naming created for it. There's no reason to spend the time on that before we even know if it's something the community wants first.
why not change thte ratio
Change to a better way ? like not double but you pay say 4000 to spin a wheel role a dice and its random
i think it should be more but im coming from a different situation than many where i have a lot of assets and could get a advantgage by doing it first and have all my land with a w2ay better rarity which brings in more money to buy more nodes etc just like why i am maxing out my votes on spt, oneup, hive, etc is to get more money to distribute to myself bc i treat it as business and fun at the same time but i need profits from all of this as well. Plus i come from a place of actually owning stock in splinterlands the company, a large dao position in both sps and glx as well as a lot of cards so I guess i have to balance a lot more decisions on how it will impact my investments bc sometimes the contratict each other lol makes it for a hell of a time voting
Posted using Splintertalk
Time to buy alot of hive so no one can fuck with my votes these idiots keep downvoting me with about what i have soon that wont be the case, Maybe then ill downvote every post they have.
See how they like it when there income disapears bc there poking a sleeping whale that can screw with there money indefinately just leave me alone and ill leave you alone if not ill destroy most ppl doing this i can sustain not getting hive income for a long time.
hard pass, whale games again
Got to be a whale then. A 10 K investment in SPS would get you 300K 30K 1 million and that is about where im at and im at 100 on the rich list hopefully top 25 soon after i do my GLX SPS trade to double my SPS and GLX.
I see how it is.
I have 18 plots. I bought them way back when they were 10K DEC and I've been holding them since then, which is years now.
I'm OK with this proposal but the rarity chance has to be fair to everyone big and small land holders alike. Keep in mind there are probably going to be dead plots from people that didn't make it through the pandemic, sorry to bring it up, but,..... I don't know how that is going to be handled.
I've received plenty of rewards for holding my plots and I am still receiving them. I understand the feelings of some people that think this is a retroactive tax that we did not agree to and so it feels like a slap in the face.
What I would say to you guys is 2 things:
Can you please be more forgiving on this point? It's a complicated game after all and GROWING PAINS you know. Can we just grow with the game? There is some things in life that you can't just spitball and accurately predict the correct costs of things in the future. Land is going to be exceptionally complicated to develop and balance out. Instead of repeatedly asking them, "how much is this and that, just tell us now and sell us that instead of potions or DEC-B," just stop it. They can't answer that right now. What are you thinking? You're like nagging them while they are trying to develop a very complicated system.
Have any of you played a crypto land building game before? Did you buy a buttload of plots? You shouldn't have done that. That's too much. You created a future problem for yourself. Don't complain to others about the problem you created for yourself. Maybe sell some of them. Land is going to be like a baby, it's going to need constant time and attention but the rewards are going to be outstanding and in the end it will be fun but a chore at the same time. Don't start complaining how hard it is going to be to maintain and build your plots/buildings and how much it costs all the time.
If you want to get an idea of what it might be like go to youtube and search "worldopo" that was a crypto land/building game but it was centralized in Russia and then the Pandemic and the military conflict happened so it shut down, lesson learned.
My point is that if you bought too much land that is your fault. If you don't have the cards, DEC, time and attention to constantly upkeep and improve it that is your fault, you did that, nobody else. Don't act surprised and pissed off when land details come out and you realized you screwed up because it costs way to much DEC, cards, time and attention to own them.
I can already hear the complaints. Instead of complaining sell your plots and bring it down to a reasonable amount that is manageable or ask SPL to let us scholar it out somehow.
More pay to win? I'm continually disappointed in Splinterlands proposal ideas.
to have a chance = always good
burning = increases value of the token
couldn't find any bad, maybe evil is in details 😂
I just wanted to point out that many OG rich players are commenting that they don't like this proposal but the proposal looks like it will still pass.
I voted yes at first but then I realized, in nominal terms this is a 50% tax on plots that people paid $20 for and then patiently waited years for functionality. It seems like there are better mechanisms to burn DEC when it comes to land.
what about a promo building that has some sort of unque utility
After initially voting in favor, I've decided to change my vote to a No.
Thanks to @azircon for discussing it with me, and to @jarvie for his clear and thoughtful comments below.
My decision to vote No is based on the following:
Many thanks for doing this. I am certain SL team is totally capable of bringing a better solution
These are mostly valid points. I don't want to sway voting one way or another (I'm happy with whatever the community collectively decides), but I do want to address a few things that I think are incorrect:
Implementing this proposal is hardly any work. We are 100% prioritizing the full build-out of land, and whether or not this proposal passes won't change that at all. We would not have proposed it otherwise because we agree that building the actual land gameplay is the top priority.
This is correct. This proposal is not intended to benefit land holders, it is for SPS holders and the goal is to help bring more value to the SPS token. It is up to the SPS stakeholder community to decide if they want it or not.
This one can go both ways. Initial plans are never perfect and it's important to be able to make changes to the initial plan later on. I'm not trying to say that this particular change should be made - again that's up to the SPS holders - but generally I think it's a bad precedent to say that nothing can happen that wasn't in the initial plan.
Thanks for the reply Matt.
Matt, how can SPS holders benefit, as most land holders will sell SPS to buy DEC for the survey? The price of SPS will take a hit just because of this.
Why would the sps community want to lower it s token? Convince me after land owners got huge appreciation and sps drops why do they think they deserve more right now? The othere land drop was not planned either so that pouint is gone. WEe ned to pass this. How many votes i wonder if i could ensure it woudl have to move a bunch of loot
When it gets to peg and it gets us closer
"again that's up to the SPS holders"
Cause of this Splinterlands does all to bring this proposal through, they even use the help of hive-engine who should IMO be neutral and not vote in Proposals ?
What do you mean? I haven't done anything to "bring this proposal through" and am happy with any outcome that the SPS stakeholders vote on. More than anything I like that the community is discussing and debating this and will ultimately decide the outcome.
As for the
hive-engineaccount specifically, that's @aggroed's account and it's no different than any other staked SPS holding account as far as governance voting is concerned. I don't know why he decided to stake SPS there, but as far as I know it's not like it's SPS held on behalf of hive engine users or anything like that.
OK I wrote "Splinterlands" cause I don't know about the connections, so I even don't knew (before) who's account it is, but IMO hive-engine should not vote in a proposal, so when @aggroed want vote with his stake why he bring them to hive-engine and not to his own account ?
I am fine with the point that he vote, I am also fine with the fact that the four biggest accounts vote with more than 20 million to "for" but maybe under this circumstances increase the border to accept a proposal from 66.67% to 75% so that really a majority of the player should be behind the proposal and not only the whales. How about this suggestion ?
I have no idea, this is a good question for @aggroed
That's a fine suggestion, but it's not for me to decide. You can feel free to submit a proposal for this change for a governance vote.
" That's a fine suggestion, but it's not for me to decide. You can feel free to submit a proposal for this change for a governance vote."
Probably I would do when their wasn't the 100k DEC fee for this.
I hope it is okay if I come back to this topic.
I just saw that as bonus for paying 100k dec for a proposal you even get destroyed your reputation if you have bad luck like you can see here:
I really don't understand why Splinterlands not at least equalize such things, as they definitely has enough hivepower to do it without any problem.
After I see this I will definitely not submit any proposal and I think that many others think like me as I can see that now nearly no new proposals come from players.
Not really attractive to pay 100k DEC for letting your reputation be destroyed.
cant be all fun needs to be a roi to. The whole fun to along with battling is investment strategy at least for me and it is a business and investment so they need to mint money or cards you can sell or burn for 20-100K dec or sps. I think im just renting my land to ppl for a peeice of all the production
NNN 2 year lease going to have a NFT legal lease wehre they cover all costs and i get a 1/3 of the cash flow or card flow. and will stock pile them until i can sell them for alot or rent.
Just ike the soul bound im going to be playing 5 guilds frays to mine them so i can rent the upgraded with soul bound cards and gladious and come up with a chart of pricing to be the standard for them ad alternates like delegate to rent where you gertsay calc 100000 hp for 10 weeks you will mak more than the 9% paid to rent and vote on your teams articles until you cant then the next gores do it like a ring to fund the club and airdrops were planning. If we do 100 -500 ai generated articles at like 1 dollar even 100-500 a day or high 14K a month which would let u s buy that 10 millon sps or more that we want and 100 nodes to bc i want to be a producer when the nsps shut off i want to still get it lol so far #50 on the rich list got to get in top 10. or just get enough sps so self vote me a top validator maybe what i do.
Accept for massivr appreciaton and rent essentially its paid for unless you just bought that shit
Good for sps / land holders im in i neeed more sps to make sure it passes i want 10K nodes and 2 dollar sps so i can just pull a few millon out invest that in real estate and play in the USVI on a hill top house lol. Have my gaming office a large dome with sub glass and 30 monitors 15 computers all set up for differnt games or nodes etc. Tablets all over, get a file coin massive memory bank for renting storagre if i can profit asame with helium. Also solar in the USVI for free power or cheap with tax credits. Sell to locals if they let me place a mining shed on there land. and a helum node cover thw whole island. Also do the bank bonus promotion for the how to fund a account and when the snow ball roles by 2 years will be a few millon coming from just that. Id say are goal is to probabaly accumulate 20 million to 40 miilon total and then the company is going to buy 20 acres of land in st croix build are partner teams little compoiund on the water with 4 houses set up in all ways for gaming and has like 20 going at once with notes so i dont for get lol. Also going to find as many other games to bot as possible that isnt here so i can suck the value rbing here bc cash flow is what you need to have to get the fund going and its much esifer when you can vote it out of thing air and use lps with high rates. ONce it hits 500K there will be a offer on every spt account to trade there units for sSPT and this DAO will eventually have the purpose of rewarding SPL tv as well as GSJ Media LLC which will be like spl tv but more games and really no rules like dont come if you get offiended like ill be swearing probably not say things the proper way today bc i just don't care to learn about it id rather learn to do somthing really cool to figure out how to basically goto like 30 otherp2e new games literally just bot the crap out of them and use that for the air drop for the fund. with assets to so you get value not soemthing with no value at all other than ppl make a mkt like i do in nftm sometimes i have 300 mil lol so i buy for 5-10X LESS then sell a cost of .3 for 3 hive lol no i set them all the time its fun. Also forge is going to fly to its showing how easy the peg breaks. I wonder if a mixed coin DECORGESX make a 1/4 coin of glx , sps, dec/forge lp plus some cards lock in coval if it works get credit on nfts and use it to earn more stable coins. I think it may be time to check the mkt hope it faell like crazy i have a big vix and short mkt but long gooogl a , amazon, brkb, blk ,bx, iipr, aitx, amt, psg, wm, hive , bitq, gbtc, ethe, ltcn, intc, match, roku, a bhncb more doing a bottom feed today where you pick the lowest shit stocks and buy them and wait two days ur up usually 5-100% lol
I think the biggest land holders want it that should maybe be a hint